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  1. #376

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshal99 View Post
    At least in Sunnydale or bon temps (true blood) , the vamps don't walk around in bright daylight with magical rings. There are so many of them walking around freely that they should just called mystic falls bloodbank town as the humans are just all cannon fodder , food for the vamps walking around.
    It is not TOO bad, only, one, two, three, four......five, six, seven, eight, nine..........okay everyone can go outside during the day, yep, Bloodbanks is the new town name.

  2. #377
    Astral God Surtur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    In the case of Elena hypothetically choosing Damon... if that occurs, I think it would be because she simply saw different sides of them when she was a vampire.
    Yes, but any side she saw would be influenced by the sire bond.

    Stefan had trouble accepting who Elena was when she changed, while Damon didn't. The sire bond may have gotten Elena to like Damon more... but frankly I think it was Stefan who was responsible for her liking him a bit less. He sort of messed that up, and that's an issue independent of the sire bond.
    The problem I have with this is that Elena never wanted to become a vampire. She never really has, so how can he not fight for her? Of course Damon doesn't care about her becoming a vampire, but that is because I feel Damon is selfish. He didn't care that the old Elena, the one who he has supposedly been in love with for a few years, wouldn't want to be a vampire. Elena also had an obvious personality shift when she became a vampire, how could a boyfriend/girlfriend not notice this and it isn't like Stefan had long to get used to her as a vampire before she started boinking his brother.

    Only because you make it sound like Damon is this romantic loving guy because he just doesn't care what she is, vampire or human and that Stefan is just some guy who wants to control her. I don't think he cares what she does when she is cured. I mean obviously he'd want to be with her, but it also seems like it is about mostly her just getting to live the life that she has always wanted. He wants her to be able to make a real choice whereas Damon is basically "eh, I could go either way, but I'm totally still in love with you even though multiple people who have known you have flat out said how you have changed a lot".

    Not to mention any bonus points Damon might earn for his attitudes toward her are kinda overshadowed by the fact he clearly hasn't cut off access to her until he finds the cure. The non-selfish kind of love? Would have him realizing that despite what she says..she is still sired. So no he shouldn't be calling her and asking her to come out to the cabin to be with him or any nonsense like that. It especially should not be the first or second sentence to come out of his mouth after she says "Stefan knows we boned".
    Last edited by Surtur; 01-27-2013 at 06:36 AM.
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  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiroteus View Post
    It is not TOO bad, only, one, two, three, four......five, six, seven, eight, nine..........okay everyone can go outside during the day, yep, Bloodbanks is the new town name.
    There actually don't seem to be that many vamps in M.F. now. It's basically just the Salvatores, Elena, Caroline, Tyler, and the Originals. The Tomb Vamps are all gone and Klaus just killed the last of his hybrids. That's why Klaus had to turn a bar full of people in order to create some for Jeremy to kill.

  4. #379

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    There actually don't seem to be that many vamps in M.F. now. It's basically just the Salvatores, Elena, Caroline, Tyler, and the Originals. The Tomb Vamps are all gone and Klaus just killed the last of his hybrids. That's why Klaus had to turn a bar full of people in order to create some for Jeremy to kill.
    True based on how many there just were back during those times or with the hybrids.

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiroteus View Post
    It is not TOO bad, only, one, two, three, four......five, six, seven, eight, nine..........okay everyone can go outside during the day, yep, Bloodbanks is the new town name.
    To be fair they can only do it because they knew witches or just can't be killed by sunlight. If you're not an original vampire or a hybrid and you aren't a part of the core group of "friends" then chances of you having them are slim. Hell Rose was over 500 years old and didn't have one, Lexi didn't have one either. Damon and Stefan got lucky that their vampire girlfriend just happened to have a wtich working with/for her. Though it does seem like a vampire can't go anywhere without tripping over a witch.

    I can see why they did it though, if people like Stefan and Damon couldn't come out during the day then pretty much most of their friends would of been killed by now. True it would also mean any other non-original vamps would be similarly restricted, but once an original or the werewolves showed up any innocent humans like Elena would of been fair game during the day.

    Here is one thing I don't get though: why were people on the current council so surprised about daywalking? The Salvatores father knows Katherine turned out to be a vamp and he flat out saw her during the day. Likewise Johnathan Gilbert saw Pearl during the day prior to finding out she is a vampire. Did they just kind of forget this really important detail? Logan says it is "not in the journals" so it wasn't even something they didn't talk about, but documented. They just sort of didn't say anything. Granted the Salvatores father was killed shortly after the church fire, but Johnathan Gilbert was alive. So much for Alaric's "the council is totally competent when they aren't corrupted by vampires".
    Last edited by Surtur; 01-28-2013 at 06:38 AM.
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  6. #381
    Elder Member marshal99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    There actually don't seem to be that many vamps in M.F. now. It's basically just the Salvatores, Elena, Caroline, Tyler, and the Originals. The Tomb Vamps are all gone and Klaus just killed the last of his hybrids. That's why Klaus had to turn a bar full of people in order to create some for Jeremy to kill.
    Is that not enough ? The originals themselves can walk around and slaughter anyone they like , there's still katherine and god knows how many vamps that those originals sired over the years that are still out there.

    Besides , it's not like the originals feed off bloodbags , i would imagine they just kill whichever humans they come across when they are hungry. They have no fear of anyone from the town.
    Last edited by marshal99; 01-28-2013 at 07:01 AM.

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshal99 View Post
    Besides , it's not like the originals feed off bloodbags , i would imagine they just kill whichever humans they come across when they are hungry. They have no fear of anyone from the town.
    A fact I touched on in a previous post.

    I was simply responding to Xiroteus' countdown and pointing out that there actual numbers are pretty sparse these days; I wasn't passing any judgement on the threat posed by the number.
    Last edited by kalorama; 01-28-2013 at 09:14 AM.

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    So how many seasons you guys see this show lasting for? I only ask because obviously Supernatural only has a couple seasons left. Once it is gone I think this show and Arrow will be the heavyweights for the network. It's hard to imagine this show lasting 10 seasons like Smallville, but then again who knows?
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  9. #384
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    Yes, but any side she saw would be influenced by the sire bond.



    The problem I have with this is that Elena never wanted to become a vampire. She never really has, so how can he not fight for her? Of course Damon doesn't care about her becoming a vampire, but that is because I feel Damon is selfish. He didn't care that the old Elena, the one who he has supposedly been in love with for a few years, wouldn't want to be a vampire. Elena also had an obvious personality shift when she became a vampire, how could a boyfriend/girlfriend not notice this and it isn't like Stefan had long to get used to her as a vampire before she started boinking his brother.

    Only because you make it sound like Damon is this romantic loving guy because he just doesn't care what she is, vampire or human and that Stefan is just some guy who wants to control her. I don't think he cares what she does when she is cured. I mean obviously he'd want to be with her, but it also seems like it is about mostly her just getting to live the life that she has always wanted. He wants her to be able to make a real choice whereas Damon is basically "eh, I could go either way, but I'm totally still in love with you even though multiple people who have known you have flat out said how you have changed a lot".

    Not to mention any bonus points Damon might earn for his attitudes toward her are kinda overshadowed by the fact he clearly hasn't cut off access to her until he finds the cure. The non-selfish kind of love? Would have him realizing that despite what she says..she is still sired. So no he shouldn't be calling her and asking her to come out to the cabin to be with him or any nonsense like that. It especially should not be the first or second sentence to come out of his mouth after she says "Stefan knows we boned".
    I'm not trying to make anyone sound like romantic loving guys... I'm just sort of trying to paraphrase what Elena said was her issues with Stefen. She indicated that she had problems over Stefan not being able to accept her as she was at the time. And I think it's fair to say there were other issues as well. She did seem to have trouble trusting Stefan earlier in the season... that probably had something to do with it as well. We have to remember that sire bond or no sire bond, Elena did initially choose to be with Stefan... and it just didn't work out for a variety of reasons (certainly not all of them being on Stefan).

    I'm of course not arguing that Stefan isn't still in the running. Until the show ends he always will be. I'm merely saying IMO he lost ground. Whereas previously I think even a pro-Damon fan might argue Stefan was the front runner in regards to who Elena might choose, I think IMO coming out of this season we're essentially going to have a level playing field. I think it went from Stefan being the heavy favorite, to it being a legitimate toss up between them. Of course that's just my opinion... we'll see.

    As far as Damon being selfish... while that is certainly something even Damon himself would be the first to argue, I think it's fair to mention that he doesn't really gain anything from finding this cure. He was willing to help cure Elena even before they broke up, for Stefan (and he said so). And once he found out about the sire bond, he immediately went to try and find a way to break it. It would have been pretty easy for him to just be with Elena, sire bond or no sire bond, but he is trying to take the high road there. So I do think the show is trying to show Damon as a guy with some depth. He's no saint and never will be... but I do think they show gives the character enough reason for a descent percentage of the fanbase at least to genuinely root for the guy, flaws and all.

  10. #385
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    So how many seasons you guys see this show lasting for? I only ask because obviously Supernatural only has a couple seasons left. Once it is gone I think this show and Arrow will be the heavyweights for the network. It's hard to imagine this show lasting 10 seasons like Smallville, but then again who knows?
    If the ratings are good and the CW is having trouble developing new hit shows, I think the show could have a good long run.

    It's not a premise that I think necessarily has a built in finish line. It's not necessarily building up to this one thing which climaxes everything. As long as the ratings are okay and the writing doesn't start to completely suck, I don't think there needs to be any finish line anytime too soon.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    So how many seasons you guys see this show lasting for? I only ask because obviously Supernatural only has a couple seasons left. Once it is gone I think this show and Arrow will be the heavyweights for the network. It's hard to imagine this show lasting 10 seasons like Smallville, but then again who knows?
    To be honest with you, if The Originals manages to be as successful as the network is hoping then that's going to be the CW new supernatural show they'll bank on once Supernatural is gone. VD has a chance in being a long runner if they keep the viewers interested
    "It isn't jumping the shark if you never come back down." Chuck

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm not trying to make anyone sound like romantic loving guys... I'm just sort of trying to paraphrase what Elena said was her issues with Stefen. She indicated that she had problems over Stefan not being able to accept her as she was at the time. And I think it's fair to say there were other issues as well. She did seem to have trouble trusting Stefan earlier in the season... that probably had something to do with it as well. We have to remember that sire bond or no sire bond, Elena did initially choose to be with Stefan... and it just didn't work out for a variety of reasons (certainly not all of them being on Stefan).
    Yeah, but even all this could be a direct result of the sire bond. Why? Well, Damon was pretty accepting of her vampiric state. Maybe he did or did not come out and directly say this, but you could tell by the way he acted. She had trouble trusting Stefan this season mainly because he was trying to get the cure behind her back. I think a non-sired Elena would of also had problems with that, but then I also think the problems would of disappeared once she found out he was doing it all for her. Especially since pretty much every main character(even Elena herself) has flat out lied to Stefan and the others because she wanted to protect them so it'd be kind of hypocritical to full on break up with Stefan over that. He didn't dump her when she lied about not feeling well and went to go see Katherine..or when she tried to go sacrifice herself to Elijah with Rose..or when she went behind his back and un-daggered Elijah.

    As for them not working out, if she had never been turned I see no reason why it wouldn't of(for the time being).

    I'm of course not arguing that Stefan isn't still in the running.
    Yeah, you could clearly see the look on Elena's face when he was all "this is me not in love with you". In her mind she probably thought Stefan would spend the rest of eternity in love with her and trying to get her back(which is kind of a Katherine-ish mentality).

    Until the show ends he always will be. I'm merely saying IMO he lost ground.
    Oh he definitely lost some ground, but then again the stuff Stefan has done this season makes him look like a peace loving hippie compared to the crap he did last season(even when not being controlled directly by Klaus). I think without the sire bond any ground he lost this season would of been regained once the whole "I'm trying to cure you" thing came to light.

    Whereas previously I think even a pro-Damon fan might argue Stefan was the front runner in regards to who Elena might choose, I think IMO coming out of this season we're essentially going to have a level playing field. I think it went from Stefan being the heavy favorite, to it being a legitimate toss up between them. Of course that's just my opinion... we'll see.
    Well yeah I think the sire bond has already done the damage. There are only a few ways I can see him gaining the upperhand: Damon does something truly horribly(maybe or maybe not to help Elena) or some type of memory loss as a result of being cured. Then again if that happens we just might see Elena go to Bonnie for help in trying to remember her time as a vampire.

    As far as Damon being selfish... while that is certainly something even Damon himself would be the first to argue, I think it's fair to mention that he doesn't really gain anything from finding this cure.
    I'd disagree here: he gains peace of mind. He finally finds out once and for all if Elena could truly love him. To a guy who can potentially live forever not knowing such a thing would be pretty hard. There is also arrogance on his part, he wants to know 100% that she wants him more then Stefan.

    He was willing to help cure Elena even before they broke up, for Stefan (and he said so).
    I'm not sure I trust exactly what Damon says. He also said he'd be staying away from Elena until the cure, but there he is inviting her out to the lake house or wherever in the latest episode(I get the feeling it was to do more then just talk and hold hands).

    And once he found out about the sire bond, he immediately went to try and find a way to break it. It would have been pretty easy for him to just be with Elena, sire bond or no sire bond, but he is trying to take the high road there. So I do think the show is trying to show Damon as a guy with some depth.
    Yeah, but again I see this more as Damon doing something for Damon, in the end. Not that he doesn't have depth, but him being with Elena could be highly dangerous. Even if he didn't care she was sired he'd basically have to watch what he says around her so he doesn't accidentally tell her to do something horribly destructive and possibly getting her killed or drawing the attention of hunters, etc. I also think another part of it is he is immortal, sure maybe for a few decades he could be with Elena care free, but I think the question of her true choice would eat away at him. So while I do think he has depth, I also think it is mostly isn't "I want to cure you because I love you and I know the real you would want this" it would be "I really need to know this answer".
    Last edited by Surtur; 01-29-2013 at 06:20 AM.
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  13. #388
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    Yeah, but even all this could be a direct result of the sire bond. Why? Well, Damon was pretty accepting of her vampiric state. Maybe he did or did not come out and directly say this, but you could tell by the way he acted. She had trouble trusting Stefan this season mainly because he was trying to get the cure behind her back. I think a non-sired Elena would of also had problems with that, but then I also think the problems would of disappeared once she found out he was doing it all for her. Especially since pretty much every main character(even Elena herself) has flat out lied to Stefan and the others because she wanted to protect them so it'd be kind of hypocritical to full on break up with Stefan over that. He didn't dump her when she lied about not feeling well and went to go see Katherine..or when she tried to go sacrifice herself to Elijah with Rose..or when she went behind his back and un-daggered Elijah.

    As for them not working out, if she had never been turned I see no reason why it wouldn't of(for the time being).



    Yeah, you could clearly see the look on Elena's face when he was all "this is me not in love with you". In her mind she probably thought Stefan would spend the rest of eternity in love with her and trying to get her back(which is kind of a Katherine-ish mentality).



    Oh he definitely lost some ground, but then again the stuff Stefan has done this season makes him look like a peace loving hippie compared to the crap he did last season(even when not being controlled directly by Klaus). I think without the sire bond any ground he lost this season would of been regained once the whole "I'm trying to cure you" thing came to light.



    Well yeah I think the sire bond has already done the damage. There are only a few ways I can see him gaining the upperhand: Damon does something truly horribly(maybe or maybe not to help Elena) or some type of memory loss as a result of being cured. Then again if that happens we just might see Elena go to Bonnie for help in trying to remember her time as a vampire.



    I'd disagree here: he gains peace of mind. He finally finds out once and for all if Elena could truly love him. To a guy who can potentially live forever not knowing such a thing would be pretty hard. There is also arrogance on his part, he wants to know 100% that she wants him more then Stefan.



    I'm not sure I trust exactly what Damon says. He also said he'd be staying away from Elena until the cure, but there he is inviting her out to the lake house or wherever in the latest episode(I get the feeling it was to do more then just talk and hold hands).



    Yeah, but again I see this more as Damon doing something for Damon, in the end. Not that he doesn't have depth, but him being with Elena could be highly dangerous. Even if he didn't care she was sired he'd basically have to watch what he says around her so he doesn't accidentally tell her to do something horribly destructive and possibly getting her killed or drawing the attention of hunters, etc. I also think another part of it is he is immortal, sure maybe for a few decades he could be with Elena care free, but I think the question of her true choice would eat away at him. So while I do think he has depth, I also think it is mostly isn't "I want to cure you because I love you and I know the real you would want this" it would be "I really need to know this answer".
    Ironcally, the reason she found out Stefan was doing it all for her was because Damon told her. And afterwards she WAS cool with Stefan... at least until he had Jeromy go around killing vamps behind everyone's back, which resulted in him going nuts. Then she got mad at him again. Even a non-sired Elena IMO would have been pretty angry about that, especially since he went to kill her afterwards. But truthfully he broke up with her even before that. And that admittedly was because he believed she had feelings for Damon... but frankly he knew that BEFORE the sire bond. He just couldn't handle her actually admitting it.

    I do agree in Elena's mind she probably does think Stefan isn't over her... and she's probably right. Regardless of what Stefan says, he's almost as whipped as Damon. The minute an unsired Elena drops her hanky, Stefan will leap over hot coals (likely knocking heads with Damon in the process) to pick it up.

  14. #389
    Astral God Surtur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Ironcally, the reason she found out Stefan was doing it all for her was because Damon told her. And afterwards she WAS cool with Stefan... at least until he had Jeromy go around killing vamps behind everyone's back, which resulted in him going nuts. Then she got mad at him again. Even a non-sired Elena IMO would have been pretty angry about that, especially since he went to kill her afterwards. But truthfully he broke up with her even before that. And that admittedly was because he believed she had feelings for Damon... but frankly he knew that BEFORE the sire bond. He just couldn't handle her actually admitting it.
    True she would of been mad about him having Jeremy kill vampires, but the she'd also be pissed with Damon basically giving Klaus to ok to turn a bunch of random people for Jeremy to kill. I'm not saying you implied she wouldn't be upset with Damon, but if that act makes her trust Stefan less..

    I do agree in Elena's mind she probably does think Stefan isn't over her... and she's probably right. Regardless of what Stefan says, he's almost as whipped as Damon. The minute an unsired Elena drops her hanky, Stefan will leap over hot coals (likely knocking heads with Damon in the process) to pick it up.
    To be honest I used to mostly want her with Stefan but..I wouldn't mind Stefan and Rebecca. I can see Rebecca's character going through a change this season(it's already started) so who knows..but I can already predict if Elena finds out they are hooking up suddenly she's going to be quite upset. I'd say since she is with Damon now that wouldn't be fair to him, but she's sired so yeah(plus Damon can be a douche)

    I just don't want him to get with Rebecca and then drop her the second Elena is cured since then he's just as bad as Damon(though of course he is just as bad when it comes to the whole 'we are immortal serial killers' thing). I do think Stefan still is in love with Elena, but if it turned out he wasn't I'd basically say "good for you". That's not something you usually see in this kind of story. The vamps tend to usually stay whipped or "in love", sort of like Bill from True Blood or dare I say Edward from Twilight.
    Last edited by Surtur; 01-29-2013 at 04:11 PM.
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    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    True she would of been mad about him having Jeremy kill vampires, but the she'd also be pissed with Damon basically giving Klaus to ok to turn a bunch of random people for Jeremy to kill. I'm not saying you implied she wouldn't be upset with Damon, but if that act makes her trust Stefan less..



    To be honest I used to mostly want her with Stefan but..I wouldn't mind Stefan and Rebecca. I can see Rebecca's character going through a change this season(it's already started) so who knows..but I can already predict if Elena finds out they are hooking up suddenly she's going to be quite upset. I'd say since she is with Damon now that wouldn't be fair to him, but she's sired so yeah(plus Damon can be a douche)

    I just don't want him to get with Rebecca and then drop her the second Elena is cured since then he's just as bad as Damon(though of course he is just as bad when it comes to the whole 'we are immortal serial killers' thing). I do think Stefan still is in love with Elena, but if it turned out he wasn't I'd basically say "good for you". That's not something you usually see in this kind of story. The vamps tend to usually stay whipped or "in love", sort of like Bill from True Blood or dare I say Edward from Twilight.
    I think it's a safe bet that Elena will be bothered with Stefan sleeping with Rebekah. She was clearly bothered by Damon sleeping with her in season 3 and Damon and Elena. Though in all fairness there are legitimate reasons to be upset with Stefan sleeping with Rebekah beyond jeolously... it's not that different from a lot of Elena's friends being upset with Elena having feelings for Damon. I don't think Bonnie or Caroline are jeoulous that Elena is with Damon... I think there is legitimate concern there. And I would presume everyone (not just Elena) would feel the same about Stefan being with Rebekah.

    That said, I think there's probably more reason to be worried for Rebekah than Stefan. He's probably just using her to lash out at Elena and deal with his own issues, and she'll likely be kicked to the curb once Elena is back to "normal." That's not to say that Rebekah won't change or Stefans feelings for her won't evolve from what it is now (which is essentially nothing) into something more real... but she doesn't have a real chance with Stefan. And even though she probably realizes it going into it, she'll probably end up falling for him anyways and getting hurt all over again. At least with Damon they both sort of knew what it was... with Stefan she'll probably allow herself to get sucked in. At least with Damon you can kind of see it coming. With Stefan, I'll wager you end up feeling more betrayed because you didn't. That's not HIS fault... but that's just the way it is.

    As far as the idea of Stefan being just as bad as Damon... I think the message of the last 2 seasons was that yeah, he essentially is just as bad in his own way. In SOME ways he's better and in some ways you can argue he's actually worse. In the end the probably kind of even out. Which again, helps to justify a more even playing field as far as Elena choosing one or the other.

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