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  1. #391
    Psychological violence Moose100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chariset View Post
    New Avengers was very Strange-centric; that is true. But it was also a version of Strange who didn't seem true to the character. He was noble, and brave, but also frighteningly prone to breaking down or making mistakes whenever it suited the plot. He also had no self confidence, apologized for everything, and stood silent near the back of the panel in book after book. He got a few moments to shine in the early days, when the Mighty Avengers could have eaten the New Avengers for breakfast, but he also had Zom and its aftermath, and the revelations about his involvement with the Illuminati, and the big misstep in House of M... He didn't get to be a hero again until the very last book, when he took on Daniel to save his friends and won.

    Yeah this is kind of the point about BP too. Him featuring is not enough it has to be relevant and be true to the character. So I reject that BP showing up is " enough to be happy about". This can be anyone's favorite or just in general.

    That said I am confident Hickman will take BP to new heights.

  2. #392
    Astounding Super Bird chariset's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose100 View Post
    Yeah this is kind of the point about BP too. Him featuring is not enough it has to be relevant and be true to the character. So I reject that BP showing up is " enough to be happy about". This can be anyone's favorite or just in general.

    That said I am confident Hickman will take BP to new heights.
    I think we agree. It's painful to think about having to choose between a poor version of a favorite character or no character at all. But Hickman seems to know his stuff, and we already know he respects T'Challa from his run on Fantastic Four. Strange... I'm holding out hope. Hickman hasn't written him much, and one of those scenes involved Strange trying to divert a Skrull ship and crashing it into a building instead. But whatever he writes has to be better than Bendis' take on the character.

  3. #393
    Psychological violence Moose100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chariset View Post
    I think we agree. It's painful to think about having to choose between a poor version of a favorite character or no character at all. But Hickman seems to know his stuff, and we already know he respects T'Challa from his run on Fantastic Four. Strange... I'm holding out hope. Hickman hasn't written him much, and one of those scenes involved Strange trying to divert a Skrull ship and crashing it into a building instead. But whatever he writes has to be better than Bendis' take on the character.
    Yes we do! I was just thinking today that I never seen him take on magic characters. I anticipate what he does with Strange

  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by chariset View Post
    New Avengers was very Strange-centric; that is true. But it was also a version of Strange who didn't seem true to the character. He was noble, and brave, but also frighteningly prone to breaking down or making mistakes whenever it suited the plot. He also had no self confidence, apologized for everything, and stood silent near the back of the panel in book after book. He got a few moments to shine in the early days, when the Mighty Avengers could have eaten the New Avengers for breakfast, but he also had Zom and its aftermath, and the revelations about his involvement with the Illuminati, and the big misstep in House of M... He didn't get to be a hero again until the very last book, when he took on Daniel to save his friends and won.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moose100 View Post
    Yeah this is kind of the point about BP too. Him featuring is not enough it has to be relevant and be true to the character. So I reject that BP showing up is " enough to be happy about". This can be anyone's favorite or just in general.

    That said I am confident Hickman will take BP to new heights.
    Quote Originally Posted by chariset View Post
    I think we agree. It's painful to think about having to choose between a poor version of a favorite character or no character at all. But Hickman seems to know his stuff, and we already know he respects T'Challa from his run on Fantastic Four. Strange... I'm holding out hope. Hickman hasn't written him much, and one of those scenes involved Strange trying to divert a Skrull ship and crashing it into a building instead. But whatever he writes has to be better than Bendis' take on the character.

    We're all in agreement. Satisfaction with accurate portrayal of the characters is just as important as them just being used. No one wants wallpaper.
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  5. #395
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose100 View Post
    Strange was a feature if NA in the last and future runs. Oh wait was that a difference in taste that lead you to that inaccuracy? ;)
    Clearly, we have a different definition of 'focus' and 'inaccuracy.' Jarvis is a 'feature' of the Avengers. That doesn't mean the Avengers book focused on him, any more than New Avengers focused on Dr. Strange. I guarantee you, no one is going to name Dr. Strange as the focus or lead of the two previous incarnations of New Avengers.

    Just because you personally didn't care for how the BP was written, doesn't mean said character wasn't solely focused on in his own solo, ongoing book.

    I really can't believe you guys are arguing that Doctor Strange, a character that hasn't had his own book for SIXTEEN YEARS, has had the same amount of focus and attention from Marvel as Black Panther, a character that has had at least FOUR ongoing solo books over approximately the same amount of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by marvell2100 View Post
    We're all in agreement. Satisfaction with accurate portrayal of the characters is just as important as them just being used. No one wants wallpaper.
    I'll agree that no one wants to see their favorite character in a team book just being wall paper, jobbed, or out of character. But we aren't talking about that. I specifically said focused on, as in an ongoing solo.
    Last edited by Rheged; 12-29-2012 at 02:05 AM.

  6. #396
    Psychological violence Moose100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    Clearly, we have a different definition of 'focus' and 'inaccuracy.' Jarvis is a 'feature' of the Avengers. That doesn't mean the Avengers book focused on him, any more than New Avengers focused on Dr. Strange. I guarantee you, no one is going to name Dr. Strange as the focus or lead of the two previous incarnations of New Avengers.

    Just because you personally didn't care for how the BP was written, doesn't mean said character wasn't solely focused on in his own solo, ongoing book.

    I really can't believe you guys are arguing that Doctor Strange, a character that hasn't had his own book for SIXTEEN YEARS, has had the same amount of focus and attention from Marvel as Black Panther, a character that has had at least FOUR ongoing solo books over approximately the same amount of time.



    I'll agree that no one wants to see their favorite character in a team book just being wall paper, jobbed, or out of character. But we aren't talking about that. I specifically said focused on, as in an ongoing solo.
    Youre free to disengage from the conversation if it is giving you such a hard time.

    I thought I put a period on it but no matter how they manifested I think most can agree that these characters appearances left a lot to be desired.

    I wonder if Galactus will feature in NA?
    Last edited by Moose100; 12-30-2012 at 01:54 PM.

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose100 View Post
    You free to disengage from the conversation if it is giving you such a hard time.

    I thought I put a period on it but no matter how they manifested I think most can agree that these characters appearances left a lot to be desired.
    LOL! Should I tell you to calm down, when clearly you aren't agitated? Telling me that my post was inaccurate (or that I'm having a hard time), when it clearly wasn't (and I'm not), is hardly putting a period to anything, but your ability to understand what's being said or to respond directly to what's being said.

    It's no great difficultly for me to point out the simple facts.

    16 Years with ZERO Dr. Strange ongoings.
    16 Years with FOUR Black Panther ongoings (including Priest, Hudlin, Liss runs)

    =

    Less focus on Dr. Strange than on Black Panther.
    Far better portrayal of BP in the same the time period. Unless you think Priest, Hudlin, and Liss runs "left a lot to be desired?"

    Personally, I think Hudlin's run did leave a lot to be desired, but that is what's meant by a "difference in taste."
    Last edited by Rheged; 12-30-2012 at 02:20 PM.

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose100 View Post
    I wonder if Galactus will feature in NA?
    I could be mistaken, but it seems Hickman answered that in his Q&A that he might be making an appearance. Or maybe it was formspring.

  9. #399
    Astounding Super Bird chariset's Avatar
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    Okay, you two, stop fighting. Strange, Black Panther, and Namor are characters who could all use more exposure. None of them have had a solo in far too long, and when they've had focus in team books it's usually without getting to be the hero. Strange got sidelined for a moment of Spidey glory in AvX and was mistreated for years by Bendis; Panther had his entire country deluged with barely a nod and the writers seemed to care more about his marriage than his nation; and Namor was the first to go in the Scott Summers soap opera over the summer.

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by chariset View Post
    Okay, you two, stop fighting. Strange, Black Panther, and Namor are characters who could all use more exposure. None of them have had a solo in far too long, and when they've had focus in team books it's usually without getting to be the hero. Strange got sidelined for a moment of Spidey glory in AvX and was mistreated for years by Bendis; Panther had his entire country deluged with barely a nod and the writers seemed to care more about his marriage than his nation; and Namor was the first to go in the Scott Summers soap opera over the summer.
    Again, I'm not fighting or pressed. I'm simply stating facts. Black Panther had an ongoing THIS year. Namor had an ongoing LAST year. Dr. Strange hasn't had an ongoing in 16 YEARS. Ergo, one of these characters has undisputedly NOT been focused on by Marvel.

    Though, some people seem to want to dispute that.

  11. #401
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    To be honest, far more than Galactus, I'm interested in the Black Swan, who I will know will show up, and whether she's drawn, as Lady A suggested, from Taleb's book.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory
    Last edited by Rheged; 12-30-2012 at 03:12 PM.

  12. #402
    Veteran Member Juggernaut Punch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose100 View Post
    Youre free to disengage from the conversation if it is giving you such a hard time.

    I thought I put a period on it but no matter how they manifested I think most can agree that these characters appearances left a lot to be desired.

    I wonder if Galactus will feature in NA?
    Galactus is showing up in #4.

  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    To be honest, far more than Galactus, I'm interested in the Black Swan, who will know will show up, and whether she's drawn, as Lady A suggested, from Taleb's book.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory
    So Black Swan's power will be to induce unexpected events into financial markets which will throw off the entire global economy?

  14. #404
    Astounding Super Bird chariset's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    To be honest, far more than Galactus, I'm interested in the Black Swan, who will know will show up, and whether she's drawn, as Lady A suggested, from Taleb's book.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory
    A rare event which takes everyone by surprise but which in hindsight was predictable and preventable?

    That would make sense, since that's sort of how the Illuminati were meant to function -- to get together and share information before major disasters could happen

  15. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    So Black Swan's power will be to induce unexpected events into financial markets which will throw off the entire global economy?
    It doesn't have to be related to financial markets. I would say the arrival of the Spanish to the New World was a Black Swan event for the Native Americans. The asteroid that took out the dinosaurs, was a Black Swan event for the dinos. It's a completely unexpected event, with major consequences.


    Quote Originally Posted by chariset View Post
    A rare event which takes everyone by surprise but which in hindsight was predictable and preventable?

    That would make sense, since that's sort of how the Illuminati were meant to function -- to get together and share information before major disasters could happen
    I think it's the very conceit that the Illuminati is founded on, but clearly cannot handle. Tony believed, with hindsight, that the Kree Skrull War could have been predicted and handled by a group like the Illuminati, when in reality, because it was a Black Swan event, that wasn't the case.

    The Garden also appears to be a Black Swan event.
    Last edited by Rheged; 12-30-2012 at 03:20 PM.

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