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  1. #16
    Super Spy Giorgio's Avatar
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    Batman, Inc. was allowed to continue only to keep Morrison happy by letting him finish his story. He's leaving soon...

    My guess is that a lot of elements from his run and from Inc. will be ignored in the future and not be refer to again.

    When one reads Inc. it's clear that you'll need the previous continuity for it to make sense. That ship has sailed.

    My advice is to enjoy it for what it is, Morrison's swan song. That era is over, we're moving forward!
    "I am not an adventurer by choice but by fate."
    -Vincent van Gogh

  2. #17
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mezzaro View Post
    To shun Inc. would be to shun the most definitive run of Batman's long history.
    You're confusing the idea of leaving Morrison's run as separate as "shunning." If anything, I see doing that as an act of holding Morrison's run in higher regard. Why should Morrison's opus be held hostage to the botched post-Flashpoint timeline?

    And as far as Knightfall goes, we have Bane in the new 52. I have a hard time believing he could exist and have Batman already know him and have fought him if some version of Knightfall hadn't taken place. Not unless the new Bane is a lot less intelligent and competent than the original, which would be a shame.

  3. #18
    Senior Member jgiannantoni05's Avatar
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    botched post-Flashpoint timeline
    QFT. Bat39's attempt at this conjectural timeline accurate or not (and I'd say inaccurate for having that Damian was conceived before Batman), it's not worth trying to construct IMHO. Just not-very-good rushed unspecial stories have constructed this mess. Pre-Flashpoint continuity was superior IMHO.
    Last edited by jgiannantoni05; 11-19-2012 at 08:46 PM.
    DC discarded their history, and now has none. DC will always be in the shadows of their past work.

  4. #19
    New Member dntfeedthemnkys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    You're confusing the idea of leaving Morrison's run as separate as "shunning." If anything, I see doing that as an act of holding Morrison's run in higher regard. Why should Morrison's opus be held hostage to the botched post-Flashpoint timeline?

    And as far as Knightfall goes, we have Bane in the new 52. I have a hard time believing he could exist and have Batman already know him and have fought him if some version of Knightfall hadn't taken place. Not unless the new Bane is a lot less intelligent and competent than the original, which would be a shame.
    So, on the topic of Inc... should I start with the 2010 Issue 1 or the 2012 issue 0?

  5. #20
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dntfeedthemnkys View Post
    So, on the topic of Inc... should I start with the 2010 Issue 1 or the 2012 issue 0?
    You absolutely need to start with the 2010 series and the Leviathan Strikes special before even thinking about reading the New 52 series. Honestly, it's hard not to recommend that you need to go start even further back than that.

    But yeah, do NOT begin with the New 52 series.

  6. #21
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgiannantoni05 View Post
    QFT. Bat39's attempt at this conjectural timeline accurate or not (and I'd say inaccurate for having that Damian was conceived before Batman), it's not worth trying to construct IMHO. Just not-very-good rushed unspecial stories have constructed this mess. Pre-Flashpoint continuity was superior IMHO.
    Although, to be fair, the post-CoiE/pre-Flashpoint continuity was also a patchwork affair cobbled together on-the-go and filled with its little inconsistencies, contradictions, and semi-frequent retcons. It took more than a few years for post-Crisis Batman history to normalize and everything start to feel like it fit together in a way that made sense. So I don't want to be too harsh on the New 52 "history" this early on.

  7. #22
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    And why did I make 2 posts rather than just multi-quoting? I am going to admit that in this case it came down 100% to laziness.

  8. #23
    New Member dntfeedthemnkys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    You absolutely need to start with the 2010 series and the Leviathan Strikes special before even thinking about reading the New 52 series. Honestly, it's hard not to recommend that you need to go start even further back than that.

    But yeah, do NOT begin with the New 52 series.
    Brilliant - thanks for the tip. I'll do exactly that.

    I'm going to read knightfall too... looking forward to both of these. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    And why did I make 2 posts rather than just multi-quoting? I am going to admit that in this case it came down 100% to laziness.
    hehe.. and this is post #3. Frankly, I like how you roll.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    You absolutely need to start with the 2010 series and the Leviathan Strikes special before even thinking about reading the New 52 series. Honestly, it's hard not to recommend that you need to go start even further back than that.

    But yeah, do NOT begin with the New 52 series.
    I think the New 52 series is fine enough to follow, especially with the zero issue recapping everything.

  10. #25
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    I think the New 52 series is fine enough to follow, especially with the zero issue recapping everything.
    That's like saying you could watch Twin Peaks starting from the final episode because at the beginning of the episode, Kyle MacLachlan says, "Previously, on Twin Peaks..."

    I agree you could get the gist of what is happening, but for enjoyment's sake, I wouldn't go that route.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mezzaro View Post
    Under the assumptions that Batman, Inc. is in continuity (because all of Morrison's run is in continuity, so why wouldn't Inc. be?) it is stated that Morrison's run has taken at LEAST two years with the line in Inc. #3 "Wow, Talia's web." Says Dick to Bruce. "The last few years of our lives. A network interlinked of strands. With Leviathan always at its center." Bruce says to Dick in response.

    Morrison's run happened, and works (well, workED), before the DCnU that screwed everything up.

    Ignore this PARAGRAPH if Nightfall has (in comics) been definitively stated as happening. I'm not completely up-to-date on the Bat 0s yet, but from what I can tell Nightfall NEVER happened. Nightfall doesn't add anything to the Bat-mythos that have been addressed; nothing with Bane, Azreal, no Tallyman, we're just at a loss here for Nightfall.

    As for Cataclysm/No Man's Land/Fugitive NEVER happened as well. It is actually IMPOSSIBLE. If we set Morrison's run as the past THREE YEARS then Batman appearing six years ago gives him just enough to fight Joker, have Dick for about a year, have Jason for about a year, get Tim and immediately launch into No Man's Land where they manage to rebuild in under a year so that Morrison's run can happen.

    Now, let us assume Morrison's run never happened (which is impossible, but if you people wish to shun Batman, Inc. then you must shun all of Morrison's works).

    We get pretty much what the timeline up there says minus...Dick becoming Batman, anything related to Darseid/Final Crisis, Black Glove, Batman & Robin...OH! And Damian. Why shun just Batman, Inc. and not the rest of Morrison's run? It makes practically no sense? Morrison started Inc. first and so the other titles should have fit around him. I think it is a pretty established fact that Morrison isn't going to deter his stories for anything as small as a universal reboot, so with DC publishing Morrison's endgame, we get a pretty nasty *(#&up on DiDio's part.

    Morrison was high, mighty and in charge pre-DCnU and Inc. is still the definitive title on the pure basis that DC launched it as part of the in continuity Earth 0 New 52 line. Since it has not been stated that Morrison's run is not canon or accurate, it is therefore what defines the Bat-mythos as of this point.

    To shun Inc. would be to shun the most definitive run of Batman's long history.
    Agree with you completely.

    In fact, there have been frequent references to the events of Batman Inc over in 'Batman and Robin'...so Inc is CLEARLY set in the new 52.

    Incidentally, DC has started to become vague about Damian's age again...with Bruce referring to him as being 10.

  12. #27

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    I've completely given up on trying to make sense of any kind of bat time line post flashpoint. I'm just happy to have my own mental continuity where everything still happened and the characters are whatever age I interpret them to be.

  13. #28
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    Just thought I'd put this in as well:

    Over on another topic I was just reading they were discussing James Gordon, Jr., and how he exists in the New 52. This makes absolutely no since. Still operating on Batman being six years old we get a six year old James Gordon, Jr., running around serial-killing? How is this possible? I love Black Mirror, hell, I love Snyder (almost as much as Morrison) but the New 52 just made ANOTHER massive ^%#@up on the Batman line. How is that they manage to keep Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern straight, but not Batman, their highest selling character of ALL TIME? Is it simply they don't care about the timeline because they know if they slap "Batman" on the cover it'll sell bucko bucks? Just curious.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mezzaro View Post
    Just thought I'd put this in as well:

    Over on another topic I was just reading they were discussing James Gordon, Jr., and how he exists in the New 52. This makes absolutely no since. Still operating on Batman being six years old we get a six year old James Gordon, Jr., running around serial-killing? How is this possible? I love Black Mirror, hell, I love Snyder (almost as much as Morrison) but the New 52 just made ANOTHER massive ^%#@up on the Batman line. How is that they manage to keep Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern straight, but not Batman, their highest selling character of ALL TIME? Is it simply they don't care about the timeline because they know if they slap "Batman" on the cover it'll sell bucko bucks? Just curious.
    Well, interestingly enough, Batman continuity was probably the MOST straight-forward continuity at DC...until Flashpoint came along and Batman's entire history was forcibly squeezed into the 5-6 year timeline. The compressed timeline works well for Superman and Wonder Woman, with their hard reboots; but definitely not for Batman, who's (largely) maintained his history...

  15. #30
    Follower of the Bat Greenbats's Avatar
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    thanks for this thread, I actually got on today specifically looking for something just like this. Just finished reading the Zero issues related to Batman and still was a little confused by the timing of everything, so this does help a lot! Although some people have poked holes in it, this makes more sense to me then what others have proposed as an accurate timeline.
    "You're an architect, Clark. You're building a future. I'm a fireman I put out fires as best I can, and then move on to the next one"
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    Superman/Batman Issue #87
    Writer:Joshua Hale Fialkov

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