REVIEW: Ultimate Comics Spider-Man, #15

[CBR News]

In times of real trouble for the United States, "Ultimate Comics Spider-Man" sees Miles considering joining the biggest heroes around: The Ultimates.


Full review here.

[Plawsky]

I definitely agree with the review, especially as far as a comment towards the DWF/UWS crossover goes. This about sums up my feelings:

It's hard for me to even connect Miles' life with other Ultimate books I'm reading and while I've immensely enjoyed the creation of Miles as a young superhero, it's hard to believe Miles lives in the same universe as the Ultimate X-Men.

[MagnaInferno]

Is it really that hard though? Think about stuff like 9/11 or Katrina, there were many Americans who live as if those events were not occurring. Especially for a child it's pretty easy to see who their lives wouldn't be affected THAT much.

[Samorai_black]

I have to agree, reading the universe as one Spider-man does not feel like it fits with the overall story right now. the times I do see a line about whats going on I feel that it was more of an 'Oh yeah, I have to talk about DWF". I am really enjoying the book but it just feels like Ultimates and X-men are working together and Spider-man is of in it's own bubble that some times attaches itself to the Ultmate/X-men bubble.

[Plawsky]

The point, though, is that there is a big "United We Stand" banner on this comic. This is supposed to be a line wide crossover, yet USM has not yet had anything to do with what's going on in the rest of the world. I'm not saying the book can't be off in its own corner, but it should still be part of the story. Otherwise, why make it part of the event? Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men are telling two entirely separate stories, yet they still feel like they add to each other. I can't say that for USM. I would be absolutely fine (in fact, I'd prefer it, given the way it's turned out) if USM wasn't part of this event.

[Robbie_Jee]

The point, though, is that there is a big "United We Stand" banner on this comic. This is supposed to be a line wide crossover, yet USM has not yet had anything to do with what's going on in the rest of the world. I'm not saying the book can't be off in its own corner, but it should still be part of the story. Otherwise, why make it part of the event? Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men are telling two entirely separate stories, yet they still feel like they add to each other. I can't say that for USM. I would be absolutely fine (in fact, I'd prefer it, given the way it's turned out) if USM wasn't part of this event.

Miles HASN'T EVEN STARTED United We Stand and next issue, when it does kick off for Miles, he's going to join the Ultimates. No?
I always find reviews of individual issues to be rather unfair when they talk about what they're getting and what they're not getting in the story, presenting a review of a book that the critic already had pre-concieved notions of how the comic should be. It is just a mere chapter of an entire story. I think it's only fair to judge a story by it's the whole story, otherwise it's like you gotta have action in practically every issue with most comics, and I hate that. An issue in the UU has always been just a chapter of an entire arc, an arc in which should be judged wholey, otherwise it's a very innacurate and flawed system of reviewing comics. I don't see the point in complaining about not getting something when you're going to get it in the next issue anyway. UCSM #16 looked amazing and was written excellently. I'm happy. And I can't wait until next issue.

[charlesjbaserap]

Is it really that hard though? Think about stuff like 9/11 or Katrina, there were many Americans who live as if those events were not occurring. Especially for a child it's pretty easy to see who their lives wouldn't be affected THAT much.

That's EXACTLY how I felt about the critique the last issue of Ultimates where the reviewers seemed incredulous that people had 24 news coverage in spite of what was going on. I lived through 9/11, just over 10 miles from my house and watched it all go down. But you know what, the people on the west coast didn't have their tv service interrupted (at the time I had no cable and all regular stations broadcast off the WTC) and weren't cleaning up, etc. When Japan was hit by the tsunami, there were parts of the country unaffected, and they're a heckuva lot smaller than the US.

[Plawsky]

That's EXACTLY how I felt about the critique the last issue of Ultimates where the reviewers seemed incredulous that people had 24 news coverage in spite of what was going on. I lived through 9/11, just over 10 miles from my house and watched it all go down. But you know what, the people on the west coast didn't have their tv service interrupted (at the time I had no cable and all regular stations broadcast off the WTC) and weren't cleaning up, etc. When Japan was hit by the tsunami, there were parts of the country unaffected, and they're a heckuva lot smaller than the US.

Affected or not, it would be a huge deal. I can't speak for the West Coast, I suppose, but living in Dallas, everything was interrupted by 9/11. There was nothing else on the news that day - really, all week - and most channels cut to some sort of breaking news.

And that was for a terrorist attack that killed 3,000 people. Reed Richards bombed the DC, which has a population of over 600,000; beyond the sheer number of deaths, there's the fact that nearly every part of the US government was killed, leaving the country in turmoil. Several states then seceded, one of which threatened nuclear attacks on America, another that placed murder-bots on its border, which also led to an attack on US citizens. All the while there are serious amounts of racism towards mutants, which include mass killings and concentration camps. Let's not forget the sentient death machines that the government created which are now attacking even more US citizens. As if the domestic problems weren't enough, there's a newly established floating city of super powered armies that just overthrew their own government and threaten the safety of the rest of the world. And just weeks ago, there was a nuclear attack on South America.

9/11 was a huge deal that affected everyone in the country, even if indirectly. This is much, MUCH bigger. The death toll is probably climbing towards one million, all in a matter of days. That's 200 times the casualties of 9/11 and Katrina combined; more than the amount of Americans killed in the Civil War, World War I and World War II combined. There is no leadership. There is barely even an America right now.

Now, I can certainly suspend my disbelief to the point where schools would still be open (they wouldn't in real life, though). But everyone, especially people in NYC, would be affected by what's going on.

[babybro]

The point, though, is that there is a big "United We Stand" banner on this comic. This is supposed to be a line wide crossover, yet USM has not yet had anything to do with what's going on in the rest of the world. I'm not saying the book can't be off in its own corner, but it should still be trusted the story. Otherwise, why make it part of the event? Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men are telling two entirely separate stories, yet they still feel like they add to each other. I can't say that for USM. I would be absolutely fine (in fact, I'd prefer it, given the way it's turned out) if USM wasn't part of this event.

But the big difference is that both xmen and ultimate is mostly world driven books, to expect the same from usm like the reviewer mistaken wouldn't make sense because usm is close to 90% character driven, meaning these things has to happen to the character and a 13 year old boy that isn't mutant isn't going to be thrusted in said experience, hence why you don't see anything regarding usm affecting or shown in the other two books, because said character is not thrusted into the event, well not yet anyway.

[Samorai_black]

But the big difference is that both xmen and ultimate is mostly world driven books, to expect the same from usm like the reviewer mistaken wouldn't make sense because usm is close to 90% character driven, meaning these things has to happen to the character and a 13 year old boy that isn't mutant isn't going to be thrusted in said experience, hence why you don't see anything regarding usm affecting or shown in the other two books, because said character is not thrusted into the event, well not yet anyway.

It's not so much about Spider-man being about Miles it is that he is still part of the universe where something pretty big happened to America and Europe and it has not really be brought up in the pages of Ultimate Spider-man. It would just have been better if ultimate Spider-man was not part of the corssover becuase it has not fit with what has been going on so far.

[Plawsky]

But the big difference is that both xmen and ultimate is mostly world driven books, to expect the same from usm like the reviewer mistaken wouldn't make sense because usm is close to 90% character driven, meaning these things has to happen to the character and a 13 year old boy that isn't mutant isn't going to be thrusted in said experience, hence why you don't see anything regarding usm affecting or shown in the other two books, because said character is not thrusted into the event, well not yet anyway.

I don't expect USM to be "the same" as Ultimates and X-Men. But being 13 doesn't mean he can't deal with these huge issues. In fact, I was 13 (well, three weeks short of 13) when 9/11 happened. I would love to see a 13 year old's perspective on these events. I'm not saying he should be fighting Sentinels by himself or taking on the militia in the Southwest (though UXM shows some 13 year olds doing just that). But he could still do everything he can to try to help the people being affected by these attacks, a child yearning to do anything he can to help his country.

Instead, he's fought Batroc and Rhino; the latter at least sort of tied in to all this. Don't get me wrong, the issues have been solid. But there is so much more potential here. And for an issue that is claiming to be part of a crossover, it would be great if it was part of the crossover.

[babybro]

It's not so much about Spider-man being about Miles it is that he is still part of the universe where something pretty big happened to America and Europe and it has not really be brought up in the pages of Ultimate Spider-man. It would just have been better if ultimate Spider-man was not part of the corssover becuase it has not fit with what has been going on so far.

But that is still focusing more on a worlddriven book, which usm isn't, hence why bendis said usm wouldbe a street level view, a view through the eyes of a 13 year old, that right there points to the character driven focus of the book, its understandable the complaint though, comics themselves are mostly world drivenso that is what people are use to. Manga is usually more character driven, bendis however,writes characterdrivenand that's why he runs into so many problems with traditional comic book fans, cause he does not normally write like how they expect. The same applies here, while a lot of stuff happened in the world, it doesn't mean much in a mostly character driven book, what matters is how this effects miles which as we see, causes issues with school and etc, but you won't see some panel of reed expressing his plans because again, the focus is on miles

[babybro]

I don't expect USM to be "the same" as Ultimates and X-Men. But being 13 doesn't mean he can't deal with these huge issues. In fact, I was 13 (well, three weeks short of 13) when 9/11 happened. I would love to see a 13 year old's perspective on these events. I'm not saying he should be fighting Sentinels by himself or taking on the militia in the Southwest (though UXM shows some 13 year olds doing just that). But he could still do everything he can to try to help the people being affected by these attacks, a child yearning to do anything he can to help his country.

Instead, he's fought Batroc and Rhino; the latter at least sort of tied in to all this. Don't get me wrong, the issues have been solid. But there is so much more potential here. And for an issue that is claiming to be part of a crossover, it would be great if it was part of the crossover.

Well technically this issue was the first of the crossover for usm, with the end showcasing him thrusting himself into the ultimates, and while you may have been 13 when 911 happen, you also didn't haveto worry about at the same time a close uncle trying to kill you. So the main difference that shows is that miles focuses more on his immediate surroundings first, which is natural for a character driven book, so the potential you are looking for wouldn't make much sense in a character driven book because you are thrusting world driven elements into a mostly character driven comic.

[Samorai_black]

But that is still focusing more on a worlddriven book, which usm isn't, hence why bendis said usm wouldbe a street level view, a view through the eyes of a 13 year old, that right there points to the character driven focus of the book, its understandable the complaint though, comics themselves are mostly world drivenso that is what people are use to. Manga is usually more character driven, bendis however,writes characterdrivenand that's why he runs into so many problems with traditional comic book fans, cause he does not normally write like how they expect. The same applies here, while a lot of stuff happened in the world, it doesn't mean much in a mostly character driven book, what matters is how this effects miles which as we see, causes issues with school and etc, but you won't see some panel of reed expressing his plans because again, the focus is on miles

Plawsky said pretty much the same thing I would have so I wont say it over. I live in Canada and I was 11 when 9/11 happened with in a few minutes of it happening I knew about it because we watched it during class and it was all people talked about for a while. Reading Ultimate Spider-man I dont feel like Miles knows what is really going, it didnt look like anyone around him knew what was going on. Thats not what a cross over is to me, I have enjoyed Spider-man until this storyline now I feel liek it is the weakest of the 3 titles becuase it is pretty much doing it's own thing.

[babybro]

Plawsky said pretty much the same thing I would have so I wont say it over. I live in Canada and I was 11 when 9/11 happened with in a few minutes of it happening I knew about it because we watched it during class and it was all people talked about for a while. Reading Ultimate Spider-man I dont feel like Miles knows what is really going, it didnt look like anyone around him knew what was going on. Thats not what a cross over is to me, I have enjoyed Spider-man until this storyline now I feel liek it is the weakest of the 3 titles becuase it is pretty much doing it's own thing.

Again, that's understandable, as stated before, most comics are mostly world driven so bendis taking a character driven approach to his side of the crossover can be offputting for many, but its his character
Driven approach that makes this story the strongest for me personally, no comic is going to
Match everyone taste