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  1. #4516
    Veteran Member airdreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    I hope the X-Men book sells well 'cause if it doesn't then it'll be a while since we see a book like this again.
    So true. Featuring almost all of the most well-known X-ladies (only not including Emma and Jean), if it couldn't sell very well the value of Marvel female characters would be doubted...
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  2. #4517
    Elder Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airdreams View Post
    So true. Featuring almost all of the most well-known X-ladies (only not including Emma and Jean), if it couldn't sell very well the value of Marvel female characters would be doubted...
    Not to mention a very strong artist. If this sells well though the flipside is possible ongoings.


  3. #4518
    Veteran Member airdreams's Avatar
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    If it sells very well perhaps we'll have the opportunity to see a brand new Emma solo ongoing hahaha

    And... emmawaton was banned(again)? What happened?
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  4. #4519
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    Quote Originally Posted by airdreams View Post
    If it sells very well perhaps we'll have the opportunity to see a brand new Emma solo ongoing hahaha

    And... emmawaton was banned(again)? What happened?
    Sockpuppet i'd imagine.

  5. #4520
    ButterRum, not Butter Rum ButterRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optic Rage View Post
    An attempt at reason.

    The only reason that Emma is currently co-staring in the flagship X-Men book which happens to be one of the most hotly anticipated relaunches in an entire company wide relaunch under one of the biggest/most popular writers in the entire industry who will be working alongside the biggest and best artists in the industry is because of Cyclops.

    If it wasn't for her connection to his character she'd likely be dead, or in limbo like the majority of the Gen X cast.

    Now you can all feel free to start acting like illogical butthurt fanbois again. Or you know, use reason. Up to you.
    I agree that you are (partially) correct that Emma's popularity as a character has grown because of her attachment to Cyclops. This is true for a lot of female leads in superhero comics. Mary Jane and Pepper Potts were created primarily as love interests for their respective characters. Why fans have been voicing their complaints about Emma's hindered role in the X-Men is because she has been consistently written as her own character who was not hindered by another comic book Gary Stu out to prove himself that he's a ~man~ and not a boy anymore.

    The Emma and Cyclops romance was initially attractive for a lot of us because we saw Emma grow as a character without her role being diminished as a love interest's and plot device. It was an unconventional romance -- if not a bit wrong and twisted -- and a nice break from the typical romances we see in comic books. Besides, most fans who buy the books love Emma because she's Emma, not because she's with Cyclops. However, a lot of Cyclops fans (and the current writers) like Emma because she's good for Cyclops.

    But since Emma's inception, her role in the MU has consistently grown, so I feel it is inaccurate to say that Emma's popularity grew because of Cyclops. She made few appearances in her early beginnings and then her role as a villain increased, especially in the New Mutants era, and then she became the lead in an ongoing in Generation X. If you read the letterpages, everybody loved her and Marvel kept saying that they will have big plans for Emma. Her pathway to becoming a major player in the MU was not because of Cyclops. However, it did become that way until recently, around Uncanny 500 when the X-Men's focus suddenly became about Cyclops. Emma is definitely not the only character that has been pushed aside because of him, but as Emma fans, of course we will feel she got the brunt of it, considering her history as a character and all. I am sure in other character forums you will hear fans complain about their favorites getting sidelined due to Cyclops! (Not to mention Magneto, who bowed to Cyclops in 500 even though Mags was the first to create his own Utopia that got destroyed from forces beyond his control...*gag*).

    Also, your second paragraph -- nobody is saying we want Emma to appear in everything. A lot of us on this forums, for a while, have been saying that we just want some good writing and not the same old that keeps getting rebranded every 6-12 months due to people losing interest over crappy writing. Yeah, we could stop reading, but a lot of us care enough about our hobby to grin and bear it, hoping it gets better.

    TLDR: I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make. That we should stop complaining because Emma is popular due to being Cyclops' girlfriend and appears in more than enough titles? That the only reason Emma is popular is because of Cyclops? It may be hard to convince us of that, considering ever since Emma's inception, her increasing popularity is due to creators writing Emma _as_ Emma, and not Emma with Cyclops (and I'll repeat, the current trend now). Most of us did not complain about Emma being with Cyclops in the beginning...a lot of us liked it. it's only been until recently (past few years) that we've noticed Emma's character getting hindered.

    To be honest I'd much rather have Emma's character in limbo or dead than seeing her character getting reduced and degraded. I do say Jean fans probably have it really good (at least until they brought teenJean back) since Jean has at least dodged the inconsistent writing over the years!

    Emma's popular because she was 1) A former villain who changed her views but never changed who she was. They play that alot, so you never know what she is up to. 2) Hilarious and witty. 3) Fun to draw and write, wears the hell out of her costumes, and seethes with sexuality without being cheap, 4) Did I not hear a lot of Cyclops naysayers on the 'net begin to like Cyclops because of Emma?
    Last edited by ButterRum; 01-15-2013 at 09:38 PM.
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  6. #4521
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  7. #4522
    ButterRum, not Butter Rum ButterRum's Avatar
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    Never Forgive. Never Forget. Justice for Butter Rum. ♥
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  8. #4523
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    Quote Originally Posted by ButterRum View Post
    TLDR:
    Quite a post for something that isn't really relevant to my point.

    I'm aware of the problems Emma fans had with her character becoming an extension of Cyclops under Fraction. You didn't need to go into detail. I've read pretty much every appearance of the character, so again, no need to go into such detail as why people like her and her character arc etc. I spent my fair time mocking Fractions version of her in the review threads for his Uncanny issues on here.

    My point is the character has her position in the flag ship book and the X-Men due to her connection to Cyclops. Cyclops will always be relevant, he's the main character in the entire franchise. Emma needs him much more than he needs her.

    It's not a knock on her character, or an opinion on the current state of her character. It's just a fact. So obviously to see people moaning about Cyclops holding Emma back from ''big things'' is totally and utterly absurd to anyone using a modicum of reason.

  9. #4524
    ButterRum, not Butter Rum ButterRum's Avatar
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    How is what I said not relevant to what you said? You previously stated that Emma's appearance is due to her being attached to Cyclops or else she'd be dead or in limbo following the demise of Gen X, so it sounded like you were implying that Emma's growth is all thanks to Cyclops.

    My issue has been Emma's diminishing role into an extension of Cyclops, not how many books she's in, and several readers have voiced the same complaints . I'm not complaining about Emma not being in other x-Books because she isn't in much. I just want her to have character development that doesn't involve Cyclops, and maybe putting her in other books with different writers could somewhat balance the act. So, yes, for clarification, Cyclops IS holding back Emma's character development (like most leading men do to other women in fiction!). She could be in 100 books and still be held back if her role is nothing more than Cyclops' growing up problems.

    Maybe we are arguing about two different things here, although I did state that I partially agree with you about Emma's popularity in relation to Cyclops, but I replied based off my interpretation of what you said and agreed/disagreed for other reasons .
    Last edited by ButterRum; 01-16-2013 at 06:10 AM.
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  10. #4525
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    May I ask you why you feel Emma fits NA Best? You seem to really want to see her join in NA. I'm just curious.

  11. #4526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hariel0079 View Post
    Yea once the "fugitive" status is lifted I'm sure we'll see a lot of Emma. I wouldn't mind her in woods book or Hickman's NA (where I feel she fits best)

    Edit:

    T.Jean and Emma Frost will be co-collaborators
    May I ask you why you feel Emma fits NA Best? You seem to really want to see her join in NA. I'm just curious.

  12. #4527
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    So Emma name is mentioned more than twice in ANXM#6 as part of T.Jean sporadic TP bursts.

    So I'm thinking either someone is thinking of her or at least trying to contact her at the JGS and isn't getting any response.

  13. #4528
    Veteran Member airdreams's Avatar
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    Morrison made Emma famous and popular, Whedon made Emma/Scott my all-time favorite couple in comics; Fraction (and others) made Emma overshadowed by Scott… Her being in UXM because she's available and Bendis wanna use her; her absence from XX because Wood or editors have another plan…

    I can see why fans dislike/hate certain characters, but attributing some good move to comic characters which actually are creators' "puppet", and blaming them for some decisions made by creators are kinda irrational...

    Quote Originally Posted by NorrisTheFact View Post
    May I ask you why you feel Emma fits NA Best? You seem to really want to see her join in NA. I'm just curious.
    I don't think Emma fits NA perfectly but I really hope to see her joining. Frankly, for me, the more the book Emma appears in as a major role the better
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  14. #4529
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    Writers have a lot less freedom to interpret characters than you might think. If you revamp a character and it doesn't make sense, the readership won't take to it and the next writer will just undo what you've done. Morrison's Emma was a drastic departure from the original Claremont incarnation, but it all kind of works when you take everything together. I suppose that Bendis COULD try and turn her into some gun toting, kung fu fighting action girl, but that just doesn't feel right so nobody would really buy into it. So it is valid to criticize characters because they aren't just blank slates with which writers can do whatever they wish, there's a concept behind it all that you may either like or not.

  15. #4530
    Veteran Member airdreams's Avatar
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    Not just writers, but inculding editors, and even fans. After all it has nothing to do with characters, which are all fictional.
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