Emma Frost Appreciation III

[ButterRum]

Let's not hope for another Confessions repeat....... Dear gawd.

[yanapryde]

I really think that's more of her emotionally charged responses than rational reactions. What would you expect to see when a woman first met her ex-boyfriend who attacked her before lol? We'd better wait for their conversation when they both cool down, and since Emma and Scott are still in the same team they will definitely have that conversation.

You're right.
Its funny how I expect fully open and honest dialogue from fictional characters, but I don't rationalize the emotional outburst factor that exists constantly in reality. heh.

[Hariel0079]

I've been having a problem with Emma's portrayal since Uncanny 500. I've learned to lower my standards for comic book stories, but it's sad I tell you. Sniffles.

As for ANXM I got he impression that Emma was lashing out on Cyclops because of everything that's happened to them the past several years. It wasn't just the Phoenix Force, although she used it as means to jab at his arrogance to her since Utopia and how he took everything and threw it away. At the very least I'm glad she mentioned that.

Emma is a pragmatic person, so killing the father at the dinner table was NBD but killing the Professor was a big deal to her since he's always been supportive of her.

I do a agree that Emma freaking out over Cyclops' Phoenix excuse was hypocritical since she was the one who initially said they were losing control and even asked for help before she did anything wrong. However the only possible explanation I can take from it is inconsistent writing or Emma being locked up in the jail with no powers for so long that she sort of had an anger meltdown. Sometimes when we're angry we don't say things we mean.

Or rather clearly. I think she met what she said but wasn't clear. Keep in mind Emma had the PF before so to some degree she has some understanding. Her pointing out on cyke that he blames the PF is contrary to Gillen setup where Scott stated he'd do it all over again and also AvX12 where he accepts full responsibility which in that scene with her and magneto telling Scott what he had to hear since they've been down those roads.

Emma has a right to be angry. The flip side to what we've witnessed is that she isn't blaming the PF either for her actions. Lady was angry and needed to vent.

It's adding to the undertone that Scott can't have it both ways and come to some level of acceptance/responsibility and things will no longer be the same.


He can't be a Boy Scout anymore and isn't viewed as such and shouldn't think or see himself as such. Probably a wake up call more than anything else. (Perhaps I'm reading to much into it)

[yanapryde]

Scott told everyone who opposed him that he takes full responsibility and he'd do it all over again, given the choice.
The bird certainly can't be put on trial or locked in prison, so naturally someone is going to be held responsible. Scott conceded to that.

I think that his admission of "I'd do it all over again" is a very broad statement, spanning over the entirety of Utopia's erection (yes, I said erection), and insanity of Second Coming, as well as the AvX craziness. His admission is more about "To ensure the mutant race's survival, I'd do anything." and he'll gladly take blame, if blame needs assigning. That's how passionate he was/is about keeping his people alive.

Specifically in regard to the lovely Miss Frost, I'd say his argument that the Phoenix took hold of him is not an empty or inaccurate argument at all. Emma felt it happening. Emma even tried to warn him. And during Gillen's more Scott-focused issue, we read Scott's internal struggle/dialogue/experience with the Phoenix, and his considerable lack of clarity to what was him and what was the Phoenix. He was slipping in and out of "awareness" throughout that final battle. So for him to say "It was the Phoenix" (to Emma) isn't a lie, or a stretching of the truth even.
Yes, he said he'd do it all over again and that he'd take responsibility for what happened, but given the circumstances...that likely very well means "allowing the Phoenix to take hold of him again, as a vessel/tool/necessity, to ensure the mutant-revival-outcome".

Scott isn't trying to "have it both ways".
He's acknowledging to those who need it, that he will gladly provide them a face to blame, and despite some unfortunate outcomes, he views the bigger picture (mutantkind being reignited) to justify what led to it.

I'm not saying I want Emma and Scott back together (okay, sure, I am...but its not NECESSARY)..but I WOULD like for, somewhere down the line, for the two of them to reconcile and come to an understanding about all of this.

[Whip Whirlwind]

Yana nailed it.

But mainly I don't want Emma to be sincere about what she said in All New because she can't claim that Cyke is responsible for his actions while under phoenix influence without saying the same for herself.

And I genuinely don't believe that Emma truly wants to subjugate the human race and play judge / jury / executioner like she did in AvX.

[airdreams]

Let's not hope for another Confessions repeat....... Dear gawd.

I hated the confession issue but it was a good idea imo... Yost just didn't handle it successfully. I guess we won't see another one down the road though… they break up, but at least they need a conversation to suspend their hostility (actually it's Emma's hostility toward Scott lol).

[Hariel0079]

The scene is meant to be ambiguous, Emma venting and what not.

I think Scott wants it both ways is bendis take and, magneto is the perfect guy to pick up Scott in his " new territory" Emma's rant added to Scott's world crumbling around him as he figured she'd understand. Emma is currently with him not so much out of choice to an extent

[yanapryde]

Yana nailed it.

[airdreams]

And I genuinely don't believe that Emma truly wants to subjugate the human race and play judge / jury / executioner like she did in AvX.

That's actually two different things. Subjugating the human race is the mutantkind domination, it's about ideology and philosophy; Killing a not-that-innocent guy (actually not really killed) was a revenge, for a mutant kid. She even forced mutants on Utopia to kneel down to her – did it mean that she wanna subjugate mutantkind too? I don't think so. Not to mention the PF's influence.

[PwrdOff]

Real heroes don't cry, don't whine, and don't make excuses, Cyclops is doing all three simultaneously. It's not like he is the only one to have been possessed by the Phoenix, yet he was the only one who turned into a mad despot hell bent on making the world exactly the way he wants it, everybody else's wishes be damned, and was somehow taken completely by surprise when people didn't just go along quietly with his plan and actually opposed him. Truly a master strategist. And now after the fact, he's trying to cast himself as the victim, because everything bad only ever happens to him.

If this is what Emma really looks for in a man, then I truly pity her, or rather, I pity the recent slew of writers who have no idea how to characterize her. But hey, at least he does a really good Wonder Woman impersonation, though presumably his bracelets can't actually block bullets, so...

[Hariel0079]

Well the PF fed on their Ego/ID and brought what was present in the characters to the forefront. Like the Emma and namor thought sex.

Emma having them forced kneel and think good thoughts about her was something she most likely wanted all things considered since she's never really been accepted by the X-men except for a small few

[Whip Whirlwind]

Well yeah but in her right mind I doubt she would want that acceptance to be forced, since it kinda defeats the point.

And I agree that everything they did as the P5 was at least based on their desires. But I think a lot of it was twisted / interpreted by the phoenix.

Like when Scott killed the professor I don't think it was really "I want you dead" but rather "No more talking down to me, no more orders, I want you gone"

With Emma and the mutant killer, I think it was "He must be punished, he can't be allowed to do this ever again". Sort of like how every hero has that moment where they consider that there's only one way to keep (insert villain here) from ever killing anyone again.

Real heroes don't cry, don't whine, and don't make excuses, Cyclops is doing all three simultaneously.

Based on that criteria who in all of marvel do you still consider a "real hero"?

[airdreams]

I think Emma forced them to kneel down to her because she's always domineering (which I really like). The Phoenix AMPLIFYING what's inside people – but after being amplified, that one is not what s/he was before. I'm sometimes itching to punch my boss's face… if I got the PF I'd probably do it lol. Perhaps a murderer lives inside me

Anyway, Emma does believe mutantkind is superior to the human race – but it doesn't mean she wanna subjugate all humans.

[yanapryde]

Well yeah but in her right mind I doubt she would want that acceptance to be forced, since it kinda defeats the point.

And I agree that everything they did as the P5 was at least based on their desires. But I think a lot of it was twisted / interpreted by the phoenix.

Like when Scott killed the professor I don't think it was really "I want you dead" but rather "No more talking down to me, no more orders, I want you gone"

With Emma and the mutant killer, I think it was "He must be punished, he can't be allowed to do this ever again". Sort of like how every hero has that moment where they consider that there's only one way to keep (insert villain here) from ever killing anyone again.



Based on that criteria who in all of marvel do you still consider a "real hero"?

Yes. Their every thought/action was amplified, producing some unsettling and likely unintentional outcomes.

[Hariel0079]

I think Emma does PF amplifying or not. With a powerful cosmic force she was drunk on/became BFF's with it makes sense since she could do it without anyone to challenge her on it. One thing that stood out in her venting was when she told Scott "my Phoenix Force" and then near the end/ simmer mode she points out how they stepped on the toes of god and got burned