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  1. #3091
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    Quote Originally Posted by airdreams View Post
    Lol, please read my whole post. I'm not saying she's never lied – even she herself admitted she's an excellent liar, right?
    I did my comment still stands.
    Last edited by Hariel0079; 11-20-2012 at 07:41 AM.

  2. #3092
    Perfectly Safe Penguin ariwl1's Avatar
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    de·ceit
    [dih-seet]
    noun
    1. the act or practice of deceiving; concealment or distortion of the truth for the purpose of misleading; duplicity; fraud; cheating: Once she exposed their deceit, no one ever trusted them again.
    2. an act or device intended to deceive; trick; stratagem.
    3. the quality of being deceitful; duplicity; falseness: a man full of deceit.

    Antonyms
    3. honesty, sincerity.


    Emma's honest when she wants to be, ie. when it serves her own interests the most (and often when it's potentially scathing to someone else). She may not flat out lie most of the time, but her methods often fall into the realm of dishonesty to get what she wants.

  3. #3093
    Veteran Member airdreams's Avatar
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    She's such manipulative that she can make herself way more likeable in other's eyes easily, but she's never done this because she embraces who she really is. She admitted she's a liar after lying and is willing to take responsible for consequences of lies. That is, sometimes she's being dishonest, but she's an honest person.
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  4. #3094
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    Quote Originally Posted by ariwl1 View Post
    de·ceit
    [dih-seet]
    noun
    1. the act or practice of deceiving; concealment or distortion of the truth for the purpose of misleading; duplicity; fraud; cheating: Once she exposed their deceit, no one ever trusted them again.
    2. an act or device intended to deceive; trick; stratagem.
    3. the quality of being deceitful; duplicity; falseness: a man full of deceit.

    Antonyms
    3. honesty, sincerity.


    Emma's honest when she wants to be, ie. when it serves her own interests the most (and often when it's potentially scathing to someone else). She may not flat out lie most of the time, but her methods often fall into the realm of dishonesty to get what she wants.
    Exactly!, your lying, your dishonest

    Quote Originally Posted by airdreams View Post
    She's such manipulative that she can make herself way more likeable in other's eyes easily, but she's never done this because she embraces who she really is. She admitted she's a liar after lying and is willing to take responsible for consequences of lies. That is, sometimes she's being dishonest, but she's an honest person.

    You can't have or be both with her..she's only been recently (debatable honest person) thanks to Jean in NXM 141 with exposing her truth..

    You can't be a liar and be honest.

  5. #3095
    Veteran Member airdreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hariel0079 View Post
    Exactly!, your lying, your dishonest

    You can't have or be both with her..she's only been recently (debatable honest person) thanks to Jean in NXM 141 with exposing her truth..

    You can't be a liar and be honest.
    tbh, who has never lied in his/her whole life (even excluding white lies)?
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  6. #3096
    Perfectly Safe Penguin ariwl1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airdreams View Post
    She admitted she's a liar after lying and is willing to take responsible for consequences of lies. That is, sometimes she's being dishonest, but she's an honest person.
    Isn't that kinda like saying a car thief should go free just because they came clean? Emma embraces who she is so she's honest with herself (usually). Everyone else is on an as it suits her basis. When I think of Emma and honesty I picture the scene where she's talking to Magik and saying that everyone else is being nice to her because they remember the poor sweet little girl who died of the Legacy Virus, but the Illyana in front of her was not the same person. Rather harsh, but the honest truth.

  7. #3097
    Veteran Member airdreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ariwl1 View Post
    Isn't that kinda like saying a car thief should go free just because they came clean? Emma embraces who she is so she's honest with herself (usually). Everyone else is on an as it suits her basis. When I think of Emma and honesty I picture the scene where she's talking to Magik and saying that everyone else is being nice to her because they remember the poor sweet little girl who died of the Legacy Virus, but the Illyana in front of her was not the same person. Rather harsh, but the honest truth.
    No, they should be responsible for what they did. Look, everybody has lied in his/her life, but it doesn't mean s/he is definitely a dishonest person. You lie, you confess it, you accept the responsibility for it. A dishonest person will never admit that s/he's a liar.
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    Perfectly Safe Penguin ariwl1's Avatar
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    Ok but if a car thief admits his guilt and goes to prison he's still a car thief. If you're in the habit of stretching the truth, hiding things, cheating the system, or whatever else goes along with being deceitful and duplicitous you are still those things even if you admit them later. Even more so if you continue to do those things, whether they're for your own personal gain or the greater good overall. That's sort of like the Christian joke of "I'll do whatever I want all my life and then repent and ask for God's forgiveness on my deathbed".

    And I forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't recall Emma making it habit of publicly acknowledging the times when she hides things from others or manipulates things, at least with people besides Scott. Her more aggressive actions, like when she put that mob that was hounding the institute to sleep in NXM is when she's open and embracing her less conventional nature for everyone. Coming clean with so many underhanded actions would eventually lead to no X-Men because most of the rest of the team wouldn't stand being around her.

  9. #3099
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    Quote Originally Posted by ariwl1 View Post
    Ok but if a car thief admits his guilt and goes to prison he's still a car thief. If you're in the habit of stretching the truth, hiding things, cheating the system, or whatever else goes along with being deceitful and duplicitous you are still those things even if you admit them later. Even more so if you continue to do those things, whether they're for your own personal gain or the greater good overall. That's sort of like the Christian joke of "I'll do whatever I want all my life and then repent and ask for God's forgiveness on my deathbed".

    And I forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't recall Emma making it habit of publicly acknowledging the times when she hides things from others or manipulates things, at least with people besides Scott. Her more aggressive actions, like when she put that mob that was hounding the institute to sleep in NXM is when she's open and embracing her less conventional nature for everyone. Coming clean with so many underhanded actions would eventually lead to no X-Men because most of the rest of the team wouldn't stand being around her.
    She doesn't acknowledge publicly.

    You can't be honest and lie it just doesn't work.

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    Veteran Member airdreams's Avatar
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    Why are you comparing Emma and with a habitual car thief LOL? Stealing is crime, lying isn't. There're very few thieves in the world, but everyone has lied (not to rationalize it just to state a fact). There is huge difference between them. How many times one lies can be considered as being in the habit of cheating? And how many lies has Emma ever told?

    Actually I don't think Emma has acknowledged publicly (besides Scott she did apologize to Firestar for manipulating her) -- but why should she? She confessed to her "victims" and sought for forgiveness then that's okay if they accepted her apologies. Most of the X-Men don't like her because she's an unlikeable bitch, not because they find her dishonest.

    In my opinion, a honest person is someone who will confess it and seek for forgiveness after lying ('cause nobody has never lied), and who is true to themselves and stands up for what s/he really believes in, even sometimes it might irritate or harm others. A honest person might not be a good guy, but s/he's by no means a hypocrite. In this case, Emma is honester than many other characters in MU imo.
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  11. #3101
    Veteran Member airdreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikbackm View Post
    Look as if Emma could get some decent panel time in the upcoming Ultron War story.

    http://www.craveonline.com/comics/pr...-age-of-ultron

    Sounds a little like it takes place before AvX since they're rushing it out.
    ugh, let's stop the irrelevant discussion about the honesty…

    Invisible Woman, Taskmaster, Beast, Emma Frost, She-Hulk, Luke Cage, Spider-Man, Wolverine and Moon Knight... sounds interesting. There are only three X-Men and two of them are members of Avengers teams as well. Maybe Emma is the mole in Scott's team and will join the JGS? Or the New Avengers? I really like the Uncanny X-Men and looking at Exes working together would be great. I hope she's still in the team even after Age of Ultron.
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  12. #3102
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    Quote Originally Posted by airdreams View Post
    Why are you comparing Emma and with a habitual car thief LOL? Stealing is crime, lying isn't. There're very few thieves in the world, but everyone has lied (not to rationalize it just to state a fact). There is huge difference between them. How many times one lies can be considered as being in the habit of cheating? And how many lies has Emma ever told?

    Lying isn't a crime unless under oath. If someone steals a car and know one knows should that be considered a crime? or wrong in general? Emma told plenty of lies some that have had impacts story wise, AvX for instance is one whether you accept it or not it's there and can't be changed and like you said she took full responsibility for her action (though not really true) and hasn't blamed it on the Cosmic turkey and funny thing is neither has scott.

    Actually I don't think Emma has acknowledged publicly (besides Scott she did apologize to Firestar for manipulating her) -- but why should she? She confessed to her "victims" and sought for forgiveness then that's okay if they accepted her apologies. Most of the X-Men don't like her because she's an unlikeable bitch, not because they find her dishonest.

    The dishonest plays into the factor cause it adds to her bitchy especially when people call her out, Emma responds in a bitchy manner. Like when she made Magnus confront his sins, like when jean exposed her.

    In my opinion, a honest person is someone who will confess it and seek for forgiveness after lying ('cause nobody has never lied), and who is true to themselves and stands up for what s/he really believes in, even sometimes it might irritate or harm others. A honest person might not be a good guy, but s/he's by no means a hypocrite. In this case, Emma is honester than many other characters in MU imo.
    Emma doesn't do that though, AND THAT is what makes her character interesting cause she isn't really struggling to do so but WANTS to be viewed as such a good character. It isn't about making her into the only liar in the MU cause that's not what this is about and your taking that route and making it to be so.. Emma doesn't go out to seek forgiveness but she isn't "honest" and just because she's only said half truths doesn't make her a good person it just adds to the overall imperfect character she is and how she strives and wants to be precieved (at least impart)

    As I stated earlier it can't be both. You can't be Honest and yet be Dishonest


    Part of being a fan of a character and or liking them is accepting ALL aspects of them and acknowledging their presence not deny them.
    Last edited by Hariel0079; 11-20-2012 at 11:19 AM.

  13. #3103
    Ain't no Snowflake yanapryde's Avatar
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    HONESTLY, the LIE talk is getting BOLD, up in he'ah
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  14. #3104
    Veteran Member airdreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hariel0079 View Post
    As I stated earlier it can't be both. You can't be Honest and yet be Dishonest

    Part of being a fan of a character and or liking them is accepting ALL aspects of them and acknowledging their presence not deny them.
    Lol, again, sometimes she's being dishonest, but she's an honest person in general.

    And please, argue with my sentiments, not to try to find my motive. If I don't believe in what I'm saying why the fuck should I spend my time here?

    I've said above that we'd better stop, so I'll stop.

    incidentally, read Gen X #59 to see the forgiveness thing.
    Last edited by airdreams; 11-20-2012 at 11:33 AM.
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  15. #3105
    Elder Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    I think you're arguing two different things. This is relative to Xavier. Both Emma and Xavier are world class deceivers BUT Emma is honest about being what she is and Xavier pretends to be some holier then thou saint. That's the difference. Emma is I guess honest with herself and pretty up front of what she is while Xavier is not.

    Anyway to change the topic. What the hell. Emma in the Ultron story? Why?

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