Emma Frost Appreciation III

[Goldgeller]

I didn't think Marvel would do it, but I'm very happy Emma is done with the douchebag until he actually respects her. The whole doormat thing wasn't working for her. Now its actually exciting to see where she goes from here: Scotts second in command? A new foil for Yana? Emma speaking out her mind and being looked at for her leadership and teaching skills?

Is this heaven? ThanK you so much Bendis. Even if she does get back with Scott, at least for the time shes not we'll get to see some really good Emma thats not just a whatever you say type of gal.

I think the "doormat thing" as you put it was more due to writers not following through on Emma's potential than the nature of their relationship. Fraction was a big offender at this, though he also did some great Emma scenes as well. And while I don't always agree with DarthCyclopz, he was right that Gillen had Emma defined largely by her being upset that Cyclops wasn't giving her enough attention. I think Gillen's major mistake was assuming that he sealed the deal-- there was no Emma/Namor/Cyclops triangle, and there was no Emma/Cyclops tension.

I guess what I'm saying is that there weren't any problems inherent in Emma/Cyclops.

With that said I'm otherwise just as excited as you are! I thought I'd be upset, but it just isn't in me. I'd rather know that when I pick up ANXM and Uncanny X-men that I'd be able to get back to reading something I was comfortable with... but I'm just happy to get my Emma back. The future should be bright for her.

Perhaps, but I doubt Bendis has planed it so far, he probably have no any ideas about the plot of second or third arc of UXM now. His works are just hit-and-miss.

I'd like Emma/Cyclops back together at some time... I guess. Or even Emma and someone else (if the story makes it work-- Emma/Iron-Man?!). But one thing about Bendis-- where I must disagree with you-- Bendis always has very tight plans for a few years. This isn't about liking him or disliking, but if he's on the book for 3-4 years, he's got a pretty good map for his twists and turns. I'm very excited about that.

I've already braced myself for the absolute worst regarding this new book. Not because of any of the ideas but because Brian Bendis' dialogue is the absolute worst. People say Land's art takes them out of the story, Bendis Spider-Man repetitive dialogue is even worse at that. Give him the most amazing artist and cast and it'll still be bad.

I will never forgive Rogue fans for chasing Mike Carey away. He is by far one of the best Emma Frost writers out there.

If you don't like Bendis there isn't much I can say. I hope you'll still give the book a chance! For what it's worth, sorry some of your favorite characters are stuck with someone you don't like.

Mike Carey... Did Rogue fans not like him? I really have no idea. I read his Legacy for a while, back when it first launched, when I was on a "I'm going to read every X-book" kick and eventually I just realized I wasn't enjoying it. But he really pushed Rogue way to the top. I thought Rogue fans would like him.

[ExodusCloak]

You're going to get an arc where the Uncanny X-Men think Emma has betrayed them but hasn't like the Morrison story or the Utopa story or the Torn arc or the Gen X story. If anything her separation from Cyclops makes it more likely for writers to tell that sort of story.

[Goldgeller]

You're going to get an arc where the Uncanny X-Men think Emma has betrayed them but hasn't like the Morrison story or the Utopa story or the Torn arc or the Gen X story. If anything her separation from Cyclops makes it more likely for writers to tell that sort of story.

Lol, ah yes "The has Emma betrayed us" story arc... I don't know if this is overdone now or if this is a rite of passage for Emma writers.

Hopefully it's out of Bendis' system? Given his involvment in AvX and basically breaking the two up. I hope he doesn't make Emma a villain again... Bendis played on the "will Spider-woman betray us" angle a few times but then he let it rest. He played on the "will Victoria Hand betray us" as well. So I wouldn't put it past him. As long as it's good, and as long as he shows that Emma is a hero, fine.

[xhx23x]

Perhaps, but I doubt Bendis has planed it so far, he probably have no any ideas about the plot of second or third arc of UXM now. His works are just hit-and-miss.

Bendis problems isn't his plots. His plots are actually good. As Exoduscloak said it's his dialogue and also characterization when he gets lazy. However, that doesn't show at first, so as long as he maintains his excitement to write the series (Which I think is what he lost when his Avenger books became unreadible) we'll be fine.

I'm just looking forward to the idea of Emma and Scott to actually be one of the first documented couples to break up on panel in more than just one scene and stay in the same book together. Bendis said the romantic relationship was done, not the relationship as a whole, so for the near future we're going to get Exes force to work together for whatever reason and that's just something you rarely get to see. Especially in comics where usually one or the other goes to another book or limbo and barely interact again for years. I think the only other couple that comes close is Gambit and Rogue and considering how open ended/Co-dependant/Attatch at the hip they were with each other, it never really felt like they were off. This could be something new all together.

This finally feels new and fresh and as others have said, with Emma no longer in the girlfriend role when she disagrees with him she'll say it. I really want to know what type of relationship this group will hacve. Clearly Emma and Mags still support the idea of what Scott's doing, but will they support every one of his methods? Will he be really a leader or will the others try to fight for dominance when they see him falter? This is even more exciting than when Gillen formed the E-Team, cause now is not just about boiling tension, the shit hit the fan, the Phoenix experience had the 3 of them against each other at one point or another. And then there's Magik. Bendis has really little to fuck with, since the whole thing probably writes itself and I'm looking forward to the big plans for Magneto and overall how the group dynamic for them will be.

[Goldgeller]

Bendis problems isn't his plots. His plots are actually good. As Exoduscloak said it's his dialogue and also characterization when he gets lazy. However, that doesn't show at first, so as long as he maintains his excitement to write the series (Which I think is what he lost when his Avenger books became unreadible) we'll be fine.

I'm just looking forward to the idea of Emma and Scott to actually be one of the first documented couples to break up on panel in more than just one scene and stay in the same book together. Bendis said the romantic relationship was done, not the relationship as a whole, so for the near future we're going to get Exes force to work together for whatever reason and that's just something you rarely get to see. Especially in comics where usually one or the other goes to another book or limbo and barely interact again for years. I think the only other couple that comes close is Gambit and Rogue and considering how open ended/Co-dependant/Attatch at the hip they were with each other, it never really felt like they were off. This could be something new all together.

This finally feels new and fresh and as others have said, with Emma no longer in the girlfriend role when she disagrees with him she'll say it. I really want to know what type of relationship this group will hacve. Clearly Emma and Mags still support the idea of what Scott's doing, but will they support every one of his methods? Will he be really a leader or will the others try to fight for dominance when they see him falter? This is even more exciting than when Gillen formed the E-Team, cause now is not just about boiling tension, the shit hit the fan, the Phoenix experience had the 3 of them against each other at one point or another. And then there's Magik. Bendis has really little to fuck with, since the whole thing probably writes itself and I'm looking forward to the big plans for Magneto and overall how the group dynamic for them will be.

Good post. It will be interesting to see how it all work out.

[airdreams]

You're going to get an arc where the Uncanny X-Men think Emma has betrayed them but hasn't like the Morrison story or the Utopa story or the Torn arc or the Gen X story. If anything her separation from Cyclops makes it more likely for writers to tell that sort of story.

That's exactly what I'm afraid of. Damn, I'm so tired of the Emma-betrays-them story and seeing her being under suspicion. Except being controlled, she has always been intensely loyal to the X-Men and people she cares for and she has never really betrayed anyone. I just hate to see writers portraying her as a (fake) traitor.

[airdreams]

Bendis problems isn't his plots. His plots are actually good. As Exoduscloak said it's his dialogue and also characterization when he gets lazy. However, that doesn't show at first, so as long as he maintains his excitement to write the series (Which I think is what he lost when his Avenger books became unreadible) we'll be fine.

I'm just looking forward to the idea of Emma and Scott to actually be one of the first documented couples to break up on panel in more than just one scene and stay in the same book together. Bendis said the romantic relationship was done, not the relationship as a whole, so for the near future we're going to get Exes force to work together for whatever reason and that's just something you rarely get to see. Especially in comics where usually one or the other goes to another book or limbo and barely interact again for years. I think the only other couple that comes close is Gambit and Rogue and considering how open ended/Co-dependant/Attatch at the hip they were with each other, it never really felt like they were off. This could be something new all together.

This finally feels new and fresh and as others have said, with Emma no longer in the girlfriend role when she disagrees with him she'll say it. I really want to know what type of relationship this group will hacve. Clearly Emma and Mags still support the idea of what Scott's doing, but will they support every one of his methods? Will he be really a leader or will the others try to fight for dominance when they see him falter? This is even more exciting than when Gillen formed the E-Team, cause now is not just about boiling tension, the shit hit the fan, the Phoenix experience had the 3 of them against each other at one point or another. And then there's Magik. Bendis has really little to fuck with, since the whole thing probably writes itself and I'm looking forward to the big plans for Magneto and overall how the group dynamic for them will be.

I'm totally okay with them breaking up, and looking at Exes working together would be great. What my concern for Emma is her future. The mutant revolution won't last too long – 1 year maybe, at most 2 years I guess. After the reuniting of the X-Men and Scott's return to the school, where Emma will go? I guess during the revolution she will have her own plans that lead to the Emma-betrays-them story, which I hate so much. Or even worse, what pushes Scott to stop and give up his mutant revolution probably will be Emma's death or villainiztion. I mean, sacrificing Emma to redeem or benefit Scott finally happens (whoever makes her die or go back to villainy I hate him forever).

Perhaps I'm overreacting to this, but I guess a tough time is waiting for Emma :(

[Hariel0079]

You're going to get an arc where the Uncanny X-Men think Emma has betrayed them but hasn't like the Morrison story or the Utopa story or the Torn arc or the Gen X story. If anything her separation from Cyclops makes it more likely for writers to tell that sort of story.

Yea somewhat, bendis did point out his first arc revolves around magneto

[xhx23x]

I'm totally okay with them breaking up, and looking at Exes working together would be great. What my concern for Emma is her future. The mutant revolution won't last too long – 1 year maybe, at most 2 years I guess. After the reuniting of the X-Men and Scott's return to the school, where Emma will go? I guess during the revolution she will have her own plans that lead to the Emma-betrays-them story, which I hate so much. Or even worse, what pushes Scott to stop and give up his mutant revolution probably will be Emma's death or villainiztion. I mean, sacrificing Emma to redeem or benefit Scott finally happens (whoever makes her die or go back to villainy I hate him forever).

Perhaps I'm overreacting to this, but I guess a tough time is waiting for Emma :(

I think you are overreacting a bit yeah. The mutant Revolution doesn't have to end perse. And more mutants just will be more need for mutant schools, so if for some reason Emma did leave the X-Men, (Which I really doubt since Marvel loves their status quo too much to take Emma out of their main titles) she could just reopen a school. Also, what will Emma have to betray here? it's not really the same situation as she had in the past. And to be fair, we don't know the full scope of what her situation is here. one of the things that gives me hope for Bendis is when he was asked about writing people who were former villians or looked at as villians was that he said that these people were always doing what they thought was right by Mutants. That was really core to why Emma worked so well as a morally gray character and was core to why Magneto evolved from just being a one dimensional villian. It's not about being good or bad. This team will be in the real gray area place, only not as blatant as the X-Forces. I just think that we shouldn't really oversimplify things yet. What Scott and the others seem to be doing is protecting kids who more or less will need someone to fight for them. And I just don't think the Emma betrays the team works in the scenerio. Unless she defects to Logan's school at some point, which wouldn't be something you would oppose.

I'm not saying expect a masterpiece, but it's really not as bad as it could've turned out so far.

[Goldgeller]

That's exactly what I'm afraid of. Damn, I'm so tired of the Emma-betrays-them story and seeing her being under suspicion. Except being controlled, she has always been intensely loyal to the X-Men and people she cares for and she has never really betrayed anyone. I just hate to see writers portraying her as a (fake) traitor.

I agree with what you say, for the most part... "Emma-betrays-them" isn't really old because it's Emma "betraying" them... it's old because the X-men always act like she has or will. The best thing for them to do is to say "okay, Emma's gone off on her own, she's probably working some other angle." Instead they say "see, I knew it, she's evil!" It would be interesting to see Bendis directly address that.

I guess you are trying to couch your argument by saying "she's never really betrayed anyone" with the emphasis on "really" but I think once you go to the "really" you've let the cat out the bag. She was willing to sell Prof X out for the short time horizon (during AXM), and she was willing to sell some of the X-men out during Dark X-men for a short time horizon. Her plans were heavily dependent on Cyclops coming through in the end-- he did come through in the end-- but that doesn't minimize the risks she put on the X-men, especially given that she didn't tell anyone.

I'm totally okay with them breaking up, and looking at Exes working together would be great. What my concern for Emma is her future. The mutant revolution won't last too long – 1 year maybe, at most 2 years I guess. After the reuniting of the X-Men and Scott's return to the school, where Emma will go? I guess during the revolution she will have her own plans that lead to the Emma-betrays-them story, which I hate so much. Or even worse, what pushes Scott to stop and give up his mutant revolution probably will be Emma's death or villainiztion. I mean, sacrificing Emma to redeem or benefit Scott finally happens (whoever makes her die or go back to villainy I hate him forever).

Perhaps I'm overreacting to this, but I guess a tough time is waiting for Emma :(

You make some good points here. The UXM won't be on the run for long. They'll come in in a year or two. What happens to Emma? Consistently she's been thought of as a villain by other X-men. But they let her go probalby because of Cyclops (if you accept the other X-men's viewpoints). Now she's not "with" Cyclops. Will Cyclops vouch for her? He's honorable, so probably, but that's sad for Emma I think, for both in continuity reasons (why don't the X-men like her?) and for meta-reasons ("oh look, Emma's a character that can't stand on her own").

Bendis will kill characters... I don't think he'll kill Emma. But let's see! The next New Avengers cover suggests that Jessica Jones may die... she's Bendis' pet character! In that sense I'm nervous. But not so nervous. Not yet.

Your last point is entirely what I'm feeling-- I've been waiting for Emma for such a long time, and now so many things are going on. I don't know what to expect-- and managing expectations is a major part of how one will enjoy any type of product.

[Hariel0079]

Bendis problems isn't his plots. His plots are actually good. As Exoduscloak said it's his dialogue and also characterization when he gets lazy. However, that doesn't show at first, so as long as he maintains his excitement to write the series (Which I think is what he lost when his Avenger books became unreadible) we'll be fine.

I'm just looking forward to the idea of Emma and Scott to actually be one of the first documented couples to break up on panel in more than just one scene and stay in the same book together. Bendis said the romantic relationship was done, not the relationship as a whole, so for the near future we're going to get Exes force to work together for whatever reason and that's just something you rarely get to see. Especially in comics where usually one or the other goes to another book or limbo and barely interact again for years. I think the only other couple that comes close is Gambit and Rogue and considering how open ended/Co-dependant/Attatch at the hip they were with each other, it never really felt like they were off. This could be something new all together.

This finally feels new and fresh and as others have said, with Emma no longer in the girlfriend role when she disagrees with him she'll say it. I really want to know what type of relationship this group will hacve. Clearly Emma and Mags still support the idea of what Scott's doing, but will they support every one of his methods? Will he be really a leader or will the others try to fight for dominance when they see him falter? This is even more exciting than when Gillen formed the E-Team, cause now is not just about boiling tension, the shit hit the fan, the Phoenix experience had the 3 of them against each other at one point or another. And then there's Magik. Bendis has really little to fuck with, since the whole thing probably writes itself and I'm looking forward to the big plans for Magneto and overall how the group dynamic for them will be.

We don't know if Emma supports the Idea or not, she maybe but she may be with Scott out of force being she feels she has no place to go and or would be accepted right off the back. This book isn't "Dark X-Men" it feels more like NA than anything else which means for a while they'll be seperate but will eventually merge and characters from ANXM will be on Cykes team at some point and vice versa.

Both teams have a common goal, moving forward, giving kids a choice, and protecting and aiding mutants. How they do it between the two will be interesting, since Cykes team will be looking for mutants along with Logan's.

[xhx23x]

I really don't think they'll be much merging. Bendis said that while they'll be thematically intertwined, they would stand on their own and yeah, we don't know Emma's opinion yet, but I'm not sure how much force she will feel. She's telepath. once she's free, she could've just up and dissapeared. hell, Magik could port her anywhere where she could start over. yet she's there besides the others. I think it's a fair assumption she could agree with whatever Scott's main goal is or at the very least was convinced that it fit her interest in the moment.

[Goldgeller]

We don't know if Emma supports the Idea or not, she maybe but she may be with Scott out of force being she feels she has no place to go and or would be accepted right off the back. This book isn't "Dark X-Men" it feels more like NA than anything else which means for a while they'll be seperate but will eventually merge and characters from ANXM will be on Cykes team at some point and vice versa.

Both teams have a common goal, moving forward, giving kids a choice, and protecting and aiding mutants. How they do it between the two will be interesting, since Cykes team will be looking for mutants along with Logan's.

That's a good point. I guess you're arguing this the UXM are New Avengers to and the ANXM are the Mighty Avengers... I don't know what what the book 'feels' like though. I haven't read it.

My own thinking is that the "revolutionary" aspect may be a bit more done. It sounds to me like same old same old-- as Gillen had Cyclops say "protecting a world that hates and fears us, what else is new?" I think Bendis actually did hit on some of these themes before when he wrote Osborne's Avengers during Dark Reign, but I don't think Cyclops and his team will be the cauldron that the Dark Avengers were. So I really don't know what will be going on in this book. This doesn't seem like something that can go on for a long time. The X-men and the cops can only chase the other Uncanny X-men for so long saying "oh these guys are mutant terrorist" (or w/e) without the UXM actually doing some "terrorist" stuff before it seems forced. And don't read too much into "terrorist" I'm not trying to draw real world analogies-- I'm speaking colloquially, imagining what MU characters might say.

[ariwl1]

Hmmm....that does kinda beg the question. If WatX fills the school role and Bendis' UX take a more traditional X-book with an edgier shade of paint, what niche is ANX supposed to fill?

[Hariel0079]

I really don't think they'll be much merging. Bendis said that while they'll be thematically intertwined, they would stand on their own and yeah, we don't know Emma's opinion yet, but I'm not sure how much force she will feel. She's telepath. once she's free, she could've just up and dissapeared. hell, Magik could port her anywhere where she could start over. yet she's there besides the others. I think it's a fair assumption she could agree with whatever Scott's main goal is or at the very least was convinced that it fit her interest in the moment.

The merging wont happen right off, it'll be a while just like in NA and Avengers, after "Siege" both teams were pretty much united, the same will possibly apply to UXM and ANXM, while thematically intertwined they'll also be story wise too sometimes. UXM is still a hero team just it'll be pushing the ambiguity aspect that we've seen from UXF and what scott has been doing. I give it the next big summer event and things will get even more interesting.

Magik can do whatever she wants, even as far as not listening so as far as I'm concerned she isn't credible, I think it's more of Scott is allowing her to roam free based on his current mindset and need for power