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  1. #151
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    "This one sees me and smiles".

    "I only keep you alive to make your lives hell".

    "Darkseid IS".

    I reread Rock Of Ages for the first time in years and was struck by just how stellar Morrison's run was. I can't really comment as to how it compares to his whole bibiliography but it definitely deserves it's place in the pantheon of great American superhero comics runs.

    He didn't just take the big guns and put them in actiony stories, he suffused his stories with great characterisation, clever moments, epic encounters and plotting that was always pushing you to turn the page.

    There was a deftness and artistry that's beyond anyone who isn't Alan Moore. What's more he understood the characters and made them look special in both small and big sequences. You saw Superman take a guy who was pissed off at GL and arguing with him over collateral damage and silently talk to him in the background, eventually calming him down and saying goodbye with a handshake. You saw Batman out-witting New Gods with the power of his brain. You saw Justice Leaguers go on an epic journey through space and time that saw them visit Wonderworld and the gargantuan super-beings of ten thousand worlds.

    I reread Action Comics #600 recently, written by John Byrne with Darkseid as the villain. There he came off as a cackling, tin-pot villain. In Rock Of Ages, he was a terrifying, overwhelming force of tyranny. In Infinite Crisis, Batman jibes that the last time Superman inspired anyone was when he was dead. Looking at Superman's monthly series it would be hard to argue with that. Here in JLA, he was the smart, confident, upright and inspiring undisputed leader of Earth's superhero pantheon, the man who wrestled warrior angels of myth to the ground and defeated threats to the entire cosmos. Morrison's Batman run was good BUT a big part of me wishes he'd be on Superman for an epic series of that length instead.

    It was also good to see the Justice League as a team of seasoned, highly capable professionals capable of amazing feats. They could talk to each other in short-hand, trust each other to get out of jams, improvise and out-smart their opponents. The stories also made imaginative use of their powers beyond all the standard tropes what with Electric Blue Superman absorbing energy and Martian Manhunter turning Joker sane.

    The only Big 7 run I've enjoyed besides Morrison's is Waid's since he could at least come up with big concepts. Tower of Babel was decent and I really liked the follow-up, Queen Of Fables. Warren Ellis also had a good story in JLA Classified. I could care less about Kelly, Robinson and Meltzer (UGH!).

    I'm willing to keep giving Johns money for his JLA. I'm hoping the stories improve as he settles into the title and he's always meshed well with Reis. He's good at building up to big, epic stories that rely on a lot of prologue but not so much at imaginative, high-concept threats every six issues. I reckon Trinity War will do well since he'll be engineering it from the the ground up.
    Last edited by cactusmaac; 11-03-2012 at 06:26 AM.
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  2. #152

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    I've read Morrison's JLA run recently. It's okay. It's probably the best Justice League book in terms of feeling like a team book and making the characters feel important members of the team, so it automatically is my second favorite Justice Book by default. That isn't really say much mind you since I haven't liked anyone's Justice League run (Johns' run I do enjoy, but for the stories. His team writing sucks). Waid's was too wordy, Meltzer was bland, McDuffie had good ideas but never really went all the way with them (damn editors), and Robinson was... well you know. Morrison had the team right but I never got into any of the stories outside of 2 and 1/3 of them (I enjoyed a third of the World War III story). Also the art was awful which didn't help with my enjoyment and the comic reeked of the 90's, which gives the whole thing a sort of dated feeling to it.

    And thus my search for the Morrison comic that'll one day appeal to me goes on. Prehaps I'll enjoy Joe the Barbarian, his next work on my list to read.

  3. #153
    Elder Member Karl O'Neill's Avatar
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    We3 is always a good starting point.
    "You can't trust them as poets either. The true poet is anonymous, as to his habits, but these boys have to look, act, and apparently smell like poets"
    Flannery O'Connor on the beats.

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl O'Neill View Post
    We3 is always a good starting point.
    Someone delightfully spoiled the entire plot to me in past, so the effect of reading it would probably not be as strong. That and its drawn by Frank Quietly, which is really an artist I'm so not a fan of at all. I'll give it a shot if I run into it at my library, but it'll probably not mean as much to me as it does to others.

    Since my last post, I've started reading Joe the Barbarian. It's rather weird (not unexpected mind you) but also interesting. The whole experience with Joe hallucinating or imaging everything happening sort of reminds me of Calvin & Hobbes or Rugrats in a way where our protagonist sees and believes the world is one thing while in reality it isn't. I dig that sort of thing.

  5. #155
    We have become death Deviates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    Someone delightfully spoiled the entire plot to me in past, so the effect of reading it would probably not be as strong.
    I hate it when people do that, but it is still worth reading just to see how well done it is.

    That and its drawn by Frank Quietly, which is really an artist I'm so not a fan of at all. I'll give it a shot if I run into it at my library, but it'll probably not mean as much to me as it does to others.
    Wha?! Did you say that just before the person spoiled We3 for you? Because if it were me I would have!

    Since my last post, I've started reading Joe the Barbarian. It's rather weird (not unexpected mind you) but also interesting. The whole experience with Joe hallucinating or imaging everything happening sort of reminds me of Calvin & Hobbes or Rugrats in a way where our protagonist sees and believes the world is one thing while in reality it isn't. I dig that sort of thing.
    It's a fun book, by no means Morrison's best but good fun. It really gets that 'kids adventure' thing down, reminds me of those sorts of films I watched as a kid like the Goonies.
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  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by T Hedge Coke View Post
    "Only humans could make something kinder and better than themselves that makes them smarter than God in my opinion."

    The Filth was great.

    I think people were scared off by the deliberately scary stuff it begins and gets thicker with. It's an easy comic to pick up, but a hard one to finish. And, every review tells you it's confusing and weird and can't be understood, which I gather people then begin to believe.
    Great in your in opinion, not in mine. The reviews I read before purchasing it were generally positive. I was eagerly anticipating the reading experience, as I LIKE lots of Morrison's other work, and I do enjoy alternative comics. Nevertheless, I found it a confusing, unsatisfying mess. The art *is* pretty - although not good enought to make up for shortfalls in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by T Hedge Coke View Post
    "I still hear people talking about how they didn't understand THE FILTH."

    But, it's the people who are intelligent and capable who still find this or that confusing that interests me, because they may have a good point.
    Warren Ellis still hears this from people because, in point of fact, for many people, The Filth is not easy to follow. His jibe about their comprehension level may be on target in some cases, but really, what I'm getting from your recycling of his comments is that you're implying I must be one of those cases... I could attempt to disabuse you of that notion by pointing out that I've been reading comics for 30 years, made a living as a freelance IT writer for while, that I hold a science degree and a variety of other qualifications, and that I've been paid for my own published fiction. But, nah... I'll simply say, just in case anyone else reads this: don't waste your hard earned coin on The Filth - use your brain and don't surrender your own critical facilities to the pretentious gits that believe the sun shines directly out Morrison's arsehole onto *everything* he writes . He's good, but he swings and misses sometimes, just like any writer.
    Last edited by ShQQta; 11-04-2012 at 01:01 AM.

  7. #157
    Mattress Tester T Hedge Coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShQQta View Post
    Warren Ellis still hears this from people because, in point of fact, for many people, The Filth is not easy to follow. His jibe about their comprehension level may be on target in some cases, but really, what I'm getting from your recycling of his comments is that you're implying I must be one of those cases... I could attempt to disabuse you of that notion by pointing out that I've been reading comics for 30 years, made a living as a freelance IT writer for while, that I hold a science degree and a variety of other qualifications, and that I've been paid for my own published fiction. But, nah... I'll simply say, just in case anyone else reads this: don't waste your hard earned coin on The Filth - use your brain and don't surrender your own critical facilities to the pretentious gits that believe the sun shines directly out Morrison's arsehole onto *everything* he writes . He's good, but he swings and misses sometimes, just like any writer.
    I was actually happy to consider you potentially "people who are intelligent and capable" as I said in my post, but you know, I'm probably just a pretentious git that believes the sun shines et cetera, so I am capable of being entirely wrong.
    Last edited by T Hedge Coke; 11-04-2012 at 06:13 AM.

  8. #158
    Veteran Member direction9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShQQta View Post
    Warren Ellis still hears this from people because, in point of fact, for many people, The Filth is not easy to follow. His jibe about their comprehension level may be on target in some cases, but really, what I'm getting from your recycling of his comments is that you're implying I must be one of those cases... I could attempt to disabuse you of that notion by pointing out that I've been reading comics for 30 years, made a living as a freelance IT writer for while, that I hold a science degree and a variety of other qualifications, and that I've been paid for my own published fiction. But, nah... I'll simply say, just in case anyone else reads this: don't waste your hard earned coin on The Filth - use your brain and don't surrender your own critical facilities to the pretentious gits that believe the sun shines directly out Morrison's arsehole onto *everything* he writes . He's good, but he swings and misses sometimes, just like any writer.
    sure, but a discussion about the morrison comics that swing and miss just doesn't really include the filth, that total masterpiece.
    nor does work as a writer and a science degree really cover the qualifications to appreciating this work of art. kindof irrelevant, really.

  9. #159

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    Okay folks, I just finished up Joe the Barbarian and frankly, I like it a lot. Better than pretty much every other Morrison comic Iíve read so far. For one thing, I like the main character a lot and I care about what happens to him, with him trying to keep a grip on reality even though itís pretty hard for him. I was drawn into the story, even if I didnít completely understand every single thing that was happening or meaning behind it all (I got a bit of it, but not all). I also enjoyed trying to figure out how everything correlated between both worlds before it is mentioned.

    But there were two big things that I really liked that managed to put this comic above the rest of Morrisonís stuff. The first thing was the art. While not a part the actual writing, artwork can really affect my opinion of a comic. From the line work to the inking to even coloring, all these are important parts that can either increase or decrease my enjoyment with said comic. Morrison works with a lot of artists that I canít really stand at all due to their quirks and styles (McKean, Quietly, Irving, Porter, etc.) and that overall really hurts the comic for me. Sean Murphy, on the other hand, is an artist I truly like. Not one of my favorites mind you, but someoneís work that I can get into. His work draws my eye and gets me into the world being presented or the tone to it. Itís hard to explain but this story really benefits from having an artist I like on it.

    The other thing is probably the most important: While I didnít really get everything, I want to reread this comic and try to understand it. That never happens with Morrisonís other works. I, most of the time, read them once and have no desire to revisit the work at all, because I didnít enjoy myself while reading the comic for various reasons. Here, I did enjoy myself. I did the story, I enjoyed the characters, and I enjoyed the art. I enjoyed the surface level material and now I want to dig deeper to find other levels to it. I have to care about the surface to care about why lies below it. This is the first time reading one of Morrisonís works where I cared to go deeper and wanted to get more out of it. Itís like the movie Paprika or Perfect Blue to me. Didnít get it the first time, but I sure as hell wanted to see it again and see if I could get it.

    As such, Joe the Barbarian is now my favorite work of Grant Morrison. Doesnít break my top 20 favorite comics of all time or even my favorite fantasy comic (Bone is still my number one), but it certainly is an enjoyable surprise and the first Morrison comic I can truly like a lot. I find ironic that I like this comic the most of all his works when most people have been saying it isn't nearly as good as the rest of the stuff he written (So maybe I just read the work by him that his fans consider to be average?).

    Current Standing for Best to Worst Morrison Comics Iíve read:

    Joe the Barbarian
    Batman
    All-Star Superman
    JLA
    Action Comics #9 (I was going to read the series in trade format, but decided to read this one instead of waiting for it)
    Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth
    Animal Man
    Final Crisis

    So in conclusion, for those of you who haven't read this one, I say read it!

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by direction9 View Post
    sure, but a discussion about the morrison comics that swing and miss just doesn't really include the filth, that total masterpiece.
    nor does work as a writer and a science degree really cover the qualifications to appreciating this work of art. kindof irrelevant, really.
    Ah, but such achievements might be relevant toward deciding whether or not I might pass an English comprehension test.

    The Filth softcover is currently available on Amazon for US $16.49, so anybody who hasn't read this "total masterpiece" can get it at a bargain price. Mean rating on Amazon is 3.8/5 stars.

    The series serves multiple purposes:

    A) To make the author wealthy
    B) To entertain the reader
    C) As an inoculation of the worst aspects of life to increase tolerance to the nastiness we're exposed to everyday.
    D) For the author to play with fictional universes, hypersigils, and genre deconstruction

    C is paraphrased from an interview with the author.

    The great bonus you get when buying this work is, therefore, if it fails for you in aspect B), perhaps because you find the whole thing a bit of a mess, due to aspect C), you'll become immunised to the insinuations of mental incompetence or barbarism you will face when you report back that you don't think it works particularly well as a story.

  11. #161
    Mattress Tester T Hedge Coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShQQta View Post
    A) To make the author wealthy
    B) To entertain the reader
    C) As an inoculation of the worst aspects of life to increase tolerance to the nastiness we're exposed to everyday.
    D) For the author to play with fictional universes, hypersigils, and genre deconstruction
    Is it me, or do those apply to nearly any satire, and very strongly to Robocop?

    ShQQta, nobody gets into comics - or stays in comics - to get "wealthy." Comfortable, maybe.

    The foremost purpose of The Filth, to my mind, is the significance of empathy and the value of gallows humor. But, really, it's just the story of this guy and his cat, and how the guy feels unfairly slighted by the world. While much of it has levels of metaphor and allusion, there's not one scene I can recall in The Filth that isn't simultaneously entirely literal.

    But, please note that no one, so far, has criticized your critical awareness. I presumed you were intelligent but on the level (and, again, actual citing of what was confusing would be appreciated; I found the Filth pretty much straightforward, but am willing to entertain that others genuinely did not), and direction9 simply stated that your listed qualifications don't particularly qualify your criticism (the way actual reference to the material in question might). Warren Ellis certainly didn't indict you personally, since he wrote that over a year ago and couched it as "most people."
    Last edited by T Hedge Coke; 11-04-2012 at 03:13 PM.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by T Hedge Coke View Post
    Is it me, or do those apply to nearly any satire, and very strongly to Robocop?

    ShQQta, nobody gets into comics - or stays in comics - to get "wealthy." Comfortable, maybe.

    The foremost purpose of The Filth, to my mind, is the significance of empathy and the value of gallows humor. But, really, it's just the story of this guy and his cat, and how the guy feels unfairly slighted by the world. While much of it has levels of metaphor and allusion, there's not one scene I can recall in The Filth that isn't simultaneously entirely literal.

    But, please note that no one, so far, has criticized your critical awareness. I presumed you were intelligent but on the level (and, again, actual citing of what was confusing would be appreciated; I found the Filth pretty much straightforward, but am willing to entertain that others genuinely did not), and direction9 simply stated that your listed qualifications don't particularly qualify your criticism (the way actual reference to the material in question might). Warren Ellis certainly didn't indict you personally, since he wrote that over a year ago and couched it as "most people."
    Maybe I'm being oversensitive. It's possible.

    I'm out.

  13. #163
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusmaac View Post
    "This one sees me and smiles".

    "I only keep you alive to make your lives hell".

    "Darkseid IS".

    I reread Rock Of Ages for the first time in years and was struck by just how stellar Morrison's run was. I can't really comment as to how it compares to his whole bibiliography but it definitely deserves it's place in the pantheon of great American superhero comics runs.

    He didn't just take the big guns and put them in actiony stories, he suffused his stories with great characterisation, clever moments, epic encounters and plotting that was always pushing you to turn the page.

    There was a deftness and artistry that's beyond anyone who isn't Alan Moore. What's more he understood the characters and made them look special in both small and big sequences. You saw Superman take a guy who was pissed off at GL and arguing with him over collateral damage and silently talk to him in the background, eventually calming him down and saying goodbye with a handshake. You saw Batman out-witting New Gods with the power of his brain. You saw Justice Leaguers go on an epic journey through space and time that saw them visit Wonderworld and the gargantuan super-beings of ten thousand worlds.

    I reread Action Comics #600 recently, written by John Byrne with Darkseid as the villain. There he came off as a cackling, tin-pot villain. In Rock Of Ages, he was a terrifying, overwhelming force of tyranny. In Infinite Crisis, Batman jibes that the last time Superman inspired anyone was when he was dead. Looking at Superman's monthly series it would be hard to argue with that. Here in JLA, he was the smart, confident, upright and inspiring undisputed leader of Earth's superhero pantheon, the man who wrestled warrior angels of myth to the ground and defeated threats to the entire cosmos. Morrison's Batman run was good BUT a big part of me wishes he'd be on Superman for an epic series of that length instead.
    I agree with all you say except the bit I highlighted (I'm a big triangle era fan). Still, when you add all the JLA stuff you mention (most of which Bats was right there for) it makes the comment 10 times as stupid as it already was.

    "The last time you inspired anyone was when you were dead."

    "But...I've since lead the JL, wrestled a rebelling King Angel, returned the moon to its orbit, defeated Megaddon, went with you to the 853rd century for celebrations of my own far future selfs return from the heart of the sun (where he'd built a solar fortress of solitude after circumnavigating the universe: 1 that powered all of my descendants), was appointed leader when we gathered to fight in Zero Hour, shoved Warworld (1 made of the original Pluto) through a boom tube to stop Imperiex and Brainiac 13, defeated the leader of the Hyperclan 1 on 1 (being selected to address the world right after), was the first to overcome Know Mans brainwashing, talked a reborn Parasite into turning himself in, got married, got turned into an energy being that was split in two and still saved the Earth (getting turned back to normal in the process), made it rain in No Mans Land, defended Kismet from Dominous, discovered Hypertime, convinced the Tribunal to reform their justice system, hunted Doomsday down, fought the Elite in front of the world...not to mention, y'know, returning from the dead in the first place. I've been to the big bang a second and third time since I returned to life, and the end of time once as well. All in addition to just generally flying around saving people most every day..."

    "Nope, not since you were dead."
    Last edited by dupersuper; 11-05-2012 at 07:50 AM.
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  14. #164
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    '1234', his work on the Fantastic Four was damn good, in my opinion. Never seems to be mentioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    That and its drawn by Frank Quietly, which is really an artist I'm so not a fan of at all.
    I just don't understand the people on this board sometimes. At all.

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