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  1. #136
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    Yes hence it's called "widescreen" but it's also become the vice versa because of how tailored the style is to film adapting. Especially now with all those people who write comics as movie pitches (which I'm not necessarily saying is a good thing).

  2. #137
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    Yes hence it's called "widescreen" but it's also become the vice versa because of how tailored the style is to film adapting. Especially now with all those people who write comics as movie pitches (which I'm not necessarily saying is a good thing).
    You're still attributing a direct correlation going the other way that I don't really see. I see comics like Watchmen (whatever you may think of the film version) and DKR as doing much more to fuel Hollywood's ongoing obsession with comic properties than Morrison's JLA or its alleged descendants have.

  3. #138
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfOfMibu1991 View Post
    each JLA members arch enemy IE Lex, Circe, Mirror Master, Manta, Joker.
    They used Ocean Master, not Manta.

    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    I like Morrison's JLA more than most of those, but in no way is it better.
    I'm far too biased to give Morrisons JLA a fair critique. It may well be my favourite ongoing series ever. When putting my comics away, I very often stop at JLA 6 and 7 to reread. Morrison completely got how big the threats should be if we were to believe that Superman, Martian Manhunter, GL, Wonder Woman, Flash, Batman and Aquaman couldn't handle it solo, and wrote with an almost poetic epic sci-fi flare.
    "We'll be traveling at speeds at which our entire bodies will be converted to hyper-light information."
    "We're doing what?"
    Last edited by dupersuper; 11-03-2012 at 12:38 AM.
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    Are you kidding me? That is considered a contribution? He told big stories in the vein of what was popular 30 years earlier, but Porter draws it differently and all credit goes to Morrison?
    weird, why would you say he gets all the credit? i certainly didn't say that.

    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    And people act like "the Big-7" was a concept he invented or something. No. He just dusted it off after multiple extended periods of the JLA being misused. Using all the major DC heroes together in impossibly big adventures is what the Justice League BEGAN AS.
    who acts like that? never heard of anyone do that.
    but the widescreen approach really took off and this was the springboard. period.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    I think I do give it its due. I've said multiple times I think it's great, and I've said I enjoyed it. But "the greatest team book ever" is crazy talk. Whatever you think he pioneered on that run does not hold a candle to the enormous amount of stuff he borrowed from the pioneers who came before him. This is ridiculous.
    again you're putting odd words in peoples mouths. explaining to you how he broke ground in this run is not the same as anyone calling it the greatest team book ever. maybe one person did that, but then the conversation moved on. take one thing at a time.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by direction9 View Post
    again you're putting odd words in peoples mouths. explaining to you how he broke ground in this run is not the same as anyone calling it the greatest team book ever. maybe one person did that, but then the conversation moved on. take one thing at a time.
    But I'm not the one that shifted the goal posts. I never said the run wasn't good. In fact, I don't think I ever called it anything less than great. All I said was that it wasn't the greatest "Straight-up superheroics" team book of all time. THAT'S IT.

    Then people started bringing up widescreen as if that was an argument-ender. And I said that whatever that is worth, "widescreen action" (if it's even truly attributable to JLA) is not enough on its own to qualify it as the best team book ever made. Whatever it is worth, it's not enough to overshadow every other innovation made by the people Morrison took inspiration from, nor the classic big action, big guns team books that pioneered the tone he used in JLA.

    I asked what made, in people's minds, JLA the greatest team book ever... and "widescreen" was the only specific answer anyone bothered to give me. That is not my fault. I asked if they thought the "widescreen" contribution by itself was enough to put it over the top into "greatest ever" territory, and that's where the craziness came in. But I didn't put that in anyone's mouth.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    But I'm not the one that shifted the goal posts. I never said the run wasn't good. In fact, I don't think I ever called it anything less than great. All I said was that it wasn't the greatest "Straight-up superheroics" team book of all time. THAT'S IT.
    stop making up an argument, no one accused you of saying something different than this.

    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    Then people started bringing up widescreen as if that was an argument-ender. And I said that whatever that is worth, "widescreen action" (if it's even truly attributable to JLA) is not enough on its own to qualify it as the best team book ever made. Whatever it is worth, it's not enough to overshadow every other innovation made by the people Morrison took inspiration from, nor the classic big action, big guns team books that pioneered the tone he used in JLA.

    I asked what made, in people's minds, JLA the greatest team book ever... and "widescreen" was the only specific answer anyone bothered to give me. That is not my fault. I asked if they thought the "widescreen" contribution by itself was enough to put it over the top into "greatest ever" territory, and that's where the craziness came in. But I didn't put that in anyone's mouth.
    basically, stk, this is kindof well trod territory already. for some reason it was today new info for you. you can go read up on how morrison's jla was the springboard or harbinger for the work that ellis and millar went on to do for a few years, that really shifted the way lots of comics are made. no one in this thread came up with this, there's been a ton written about it.
    you kindof have to take it up with them at this point. but you can't hear about it for the first time now and shrug your shoulders or dismiss it without bothering to find out what you're talking about. go check up on it.
    at one point you said this run didn't break any new ground. then people started telling you why it supposedly broke new ground. the "greatest ever" business is beside the point and not really the discussion at this point.
    clear?

  8. #143
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by direction9 View Post
    basically, stk, this is kindof well trod territory already. for some reason it was today new info for you. you can go read up on how morrison's jla was the springboard or harbinger for the work that ellis and millar went on to do for a few years, that really shifted the way lots of comics are made. no one in this thread came up with this, there's been a ton written about it.
    you kindof have to take it up with them at this point. but you can't hear about it for the first time now and shrug your shoulders or dismiss it without bothering to find out what you're talking about. go check up on it.
    at one point you said this run didn't break any new ground. then people started telling you why it supposedly broke new ground. the "greatest ever" business is beside the point and not really the discussion at this point.
    clear?
    It's what I was discussing. What's beside the point is that it may not be what you want to discuss. I don't agree with the assertion that the "widescreen approach" in it's infant form was as overshadowingly innovative as you and a few other people think. It was a '90s approach to an extremely well-worn '60s formula. Great.

  9. #144
    Veteran Member direction9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    It's what I was discussing. What's beside the point is that it may not be what you want to discuss. I don't agree with the assertion that the "widescreen approach" in it's infant form was as overshadowingly innovative as you and a few other people think. It was a '90s approach to an extremely well-worn '60s formula. Great.
    no stk if you just state that the run didn't break any new ground, and then people post about the new ground that it broke, no one is talking about the greatest anything ever, even if that's something you had mentioned before.
    lastly, you liking it or being impressed with it has zero to do with whether or not it broken any new ground. if you're blind to the idea that authority, planetary, ultimates, etc heralded a new approach (or a shift in approach that really took hold, even though it had precendent), then that's a problem, i think. i don't think that's something we can really argue.
    people didn't just make this thing up out of the blue.

    edit: there's nothing convincing about letting everyone know that you never bothered giving this thing much thought, which sounds like what you're saying. that's not much of an argument.
    Last edited by direction9; 11-03-2012 at 02:19 AM.

  10. #145
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    i mean really ellis coined the term but it has as much to do with songwriting and that kind of pacing and delivery as anything.

  11. #146
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    I'd be pretty surprised if Michelinie's Thomas's, Shooter's and Engelhart's Avengers stood up as good works today. I don't remember them placing at all in the recent 100 Greatest Runs poll that was recently done.

    Morrison gets great credit for doing something very simple which had been forgotten by Marvel and DC. Putting your biggest characters in one monthly book in big, epic stories is something the buying public wants. It's what prompted the Avengers revamp that made it the most popular group of books after having been in the shadow of X-Men for two decades.

    I don't see how his work influenced Hollywood though, it's not art or pitches that prompted them to back comic book movies. It was the opening weekend of X-Men which made them realise there was a lot of audience interest in characters that weren't Batman, Superman or Spider-Man.

    Something that hasn't been mentioned much which I quite liked is Sebastien O. It was fun and I remember reading that and thinking the Wachowskis definitely ripped off the Matrix from there.
    The two most powerful warriors are patience and time - Leo Tolstoy

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by direction9 View Post
    no stk if you just state that the run didn't break any new ground, and then people post about the new ground that it broke, no one is talking about the greatest anything ever, even if that's something you had mentioned before.
    It wasn't something I mentioned. I was responding to one guy -- who was not you, by the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by direction9 View Post
    i mean really ellis coined the term
    Seems like I tried to say this before at one point, but oh well.

    Quote Originally Posted by cactusmaac View Post
    Morrison gets great credit for doing something very simple which had been forgotten by Marvel and DC. Putting your biggest characters in one monthly book in big, epic stories is something the buying public wants.
    Watch out. When I tried to say that, I got jumped on by people like direction9.

    Quote Originally Posted by cactusmaac View Post
    I don't see how his work influenced Hollywood though, it's not art or pitches that prompted them to back comic book movies. It was the opening weekend of X-Men which made them realise there was a lot of audience interest in characters that weren't Batman, Superman or Spider-Man.
    At least no one has credited the JLA run for causing the Sun to rise yet.
    Last edited by stk; 11-03-2012 at 02:48 AM.

  13. #148
    Mattress Tester T Hedge Coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    At least no one has credited the JLA run for causing the Sun to rise yet.
    It did put the moon back in place.

    Well, Superman did, but he did it in JLA.

  14. #149
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Well, you got me there.

  15. #150
    Veteran Member direction9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post

    Seems like I tried to say this before at one point, but oh well.
    i assumed several people had. the part after that was the point.

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