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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by thetrellan View Post
    The Invisible Girl. And Crystal, and Mantis, and the Scarlet Witch. All of those at once, doing what I want because Reed is stuck in a death trap I can trigger with my mind or if my heart stops.

    Wait, was that too much information?
    I forgot about Mantis. That was another of mine, as well. Like most of the old characters I liked back in the day, the most recent incarnation, as far as I could tell from on-line previews of the Guardians series from a year or two back, doesn't seem to have much connection with the one I recall.

    Quote Originally Posted by thetrellan View Post
    Actually, that's not true, Lee did break them up by having a perfectly healthy girl fall ill from pollution, as if she were diabetic or something. Coming from Attilan should have made her stronger, not weaker. This was still a good 2 years before he stopped writing the book, and during she only appeared once more, for 2 issues.

    Johnny royally screwed up by not following her to the Great Refuge. The girl travelled all that way to be with him, and when it turned out she had to return, Johnny should have reciprocated, but he didn't and lost it all.

    Although Thomas was the one to break them up finally, it was Lee who split them in the first place.
    I think Stan was a bit lost without Kirby to do the plotting for him. You could see it on the Thor series as well, though I still like those issues. But I don't think the whole Crystal mess would ever have happened if Kirby had continued to be involved.

  2. #107

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    You see those heads running down the left hand side of the cover on Justice League of America? Those were drawn by Murphy Anderson. This was something I really dug about JLofA back in the early 70s. And I really loved that drawing of Black Canary. I mean, I really loved it. Other artists, not so much. But there was something about that image. This was like my ideal, when I was around thirteen years old.


  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by thetrellan View Post
    Actually, that's not true, Lee did break them up by having a perfectly healthy girl fall ill from pollution, as if she were diabetic or something. Coming from Attilan should have made her stronger, not weaker. This was still a good 2 years before he stopped writing the book, and during she only appeared once more, for 2 issues.

    Johnny royally screwed up by not following her to the Great Refuge. The girl travelled all that way to be with him, and when it turned out she had to return, Johnny should have reciprocated, but he didn't and lost it all.

    Although Thomas was the one to break them up finally, it was Lee who split them in the first place.
    I'm not following what you consider to be our disagreement. I said that "issues like #99" suggested that Lee was leaning toward breaking up the duo. "Issues like #99" would certainly include issue #95, which is where Lee tosses out the notion that Crystal has to leave for some undetermined reason, and then #99 follows it up by revealing that, wow, she had to leave 'cause Black Bolt was sick, but for some reason the Inhumans were too arrogant to say that this was the reason. Later in #105 Lee sends Crystal off as you say, but nothing about that development irrevocably splits them up, as did Thomas' story.

    Of course Johnny couldn't be allowed to move too far from the quartet's base of operations. He couldn't leave NY for Crystal any more than he could permanently leave to pursue college. But though Lee kept Johnny in NY for exigent reasons, it does seem true to Johnny's character that he wouldn't ever go live with his wife's people-- few of whom ever showed him any respect or regard,except possibly Triton. Quicksilver was much more of a "gypsy" (literally!) type of character, so I could see him severing his connections with the normal world and living with the Inhumans-- though later writers emphasized that he too felt victimized by the Inhumans' insularity.
    Last edited by Gothos; 11-03-2012 at 12:22 PM.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by berk View Post
    I forgot about Mantis. That was another of mine, as well. Like most of the old characters I liked back in the day, the most recent incarnation, as far as I could tell from on-line previews of the Guardians series from a year or two back, doesn't seem to have much connection with the one I recall.



    I think Stan was a bit lost without Kirby to do the plotting for him. You could see it on the Thor series as well, though I still like those issues. But I don't think the whole Crystal mess would ever have happened if Kirby had continued to be involved.
    I disagree about the plotting thing as it applies to Crystal. I think the Inhumans were all Kirby's babies and that Lee didn't have that much investment in them. I think Lee allowed Kirby to intersperse Inhumans subplots in the FF's continuity both (a) to keep Kirby happy by allowing him to do his thing, and (b) to see if the characters had breakout potential. As I think I mentioned in an earlier post, there have been rumors that Marvel may have prepared for an Inhumans series in the late 60s, and that all this material ended up being recycled into backups for THOR. Maybe Goodman looked at the proposal and yanked it, quien sabe? In any case, once Kirby was gone from the book, I think Lee had no particular reason to keep Crystal in it since he didn't want Johnny married, so she was written out.

    Your mileage, etc.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothos View Post
    I'm not following what you consider to be our disagreement. I said that "issues like #99" suggested that Lee was leaning toward breaking up the duo. "Issues like #99" would certainly include issue #95, which is where Lee tosses out the notion that Crystal has to leave for some undetermined reason, and then #99 follows it up by revealing that, wow, she had to leave 'cause Black Bolt was sick, but for some reason the Inhumans were too arrogant to say that this was the reason. Later in #105 Lee sends Crystal off as you say, but nothing about that development irrevocably splits them up, as did Thomas' story.

    Of course Johnny couldn't be allowed to move too far from the quartet's base of operations, which is exactly what happened earlier when he went to college. But though Lee kept Johnny in NY for exigent reasons, it does seem true to Johnny's character that he wouldn't ever go live with his wife's people-- few of whom ever showed him any respect or regard,except possibly Triton. Quicksilver was much more of a "gypsy" (literally!) type of character, so I could see him severing his connections with the normal world and living with the Inhumans-- though later writers emphasized that he too felt victimized by the Inhumans' insularity.
    Johnny behaved like a spoiled, self-centred brat in the story where the FF went to the Inhumans to see what happened to Crystal, so he never really deserved their respect. An interesting storyline might have been built from him becoming mature enough to earn it.

    I might be mis-remembering this, but wasn't one of the motivations behind removing Crystal from the FF a desire on Kirby's part to use her in an aborted Inhumans series he'd been planning to do before he decided to leave Marvel?

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by berk View Post
    Johnny behaved like a spoiled, self-centred brat in the story where the FF went to the Inhumans to see what happened to Crystal, so he never really deserved their respect. An interesting storyline might have been built from him becoming mature enough to earn it.

    I might be mis-remembering this, but wasn't one of the motivations behind removing Crystal from the FF a desire on Kirby's part to use her in an aborted Inhumans series he'd been planning to do before he decided to leave Marvel?
    I'm kind of curious about this myself. I always thought the marriage and extremely fast love affair with Pietro (no pun intended) never made sense. Wasn't there also an Inhumans title published anyway-- after and in spite of Kirby's departure?
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  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEADER DESSLOK View Post
    I'm kind of curious about this myself. I always thought the marriage and extremely fast love affair with Pietro (no pun intended) never made sense. Wasn't there also an Inhumans title published anyway-- after and in spite of Kirby's departure?
    Astonishing Tales, maybe? With Neal Adams artwork? I think the co-feature was either Dr. Doom, Ka-Zar, or the Black Widow... can't remember...
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  8. #113
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    The Inhumans ran in Amazing Adventures #1-10, sharing the book with Black Widow through #8. Kirby scripted and drew #1-4 before Roy Thomas and Neal Adams took over. The last two issues were drawn by Mike Sekowsky, of all people. They also had their own book, The Inhumans, which ran for 12 issues from 1975-77, scripted by Doug Moench and featuring a young George Perez, Gil Kane and Keith Pollard on art.

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  9. #114
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    OK, then.

    Amazing Adventures #1 was dated Aug 1970, the same month as Fantastic Four #101 ... right as Kirby was leaving. The plot thicks.

    Happily for my memory, Astonishing Tales #1 with Ka-Zar and Dr. Doom was actually released the same month. No wonder I had trouble remembering what was happening.
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  10. #115
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    I concur with the people who mentioned Psylocke. For a kidn just barely beginning to hit puberty, she was just too much.

    For non-comics crushes, I had a big one on Amanda Bynes:

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    Hypnotize the desperate slow motionlight/Wash away into the rain
    Blood, milk and sky....

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by berk View Post
    Johnny behaved like a spoiled, self-centred brat in the story where the FF went to the Inhumans to see what happened to Crystal, so he never really deserved their respect. An interesting storyline might have been built from him becoming mature enough to earn it.

    I might be mis-remembering this, but wasn't one of the motivations behind removing Crystal from the FF a desire on Kirby's part to use her in an aborted Inhumans series he'd been planning to do before he decided to leave Marvel?
    If JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR was correct in its speculations about the aborted series, then I would speculate that the earliest Kirby might have started roughing out the idea would have been early '67. Thus, if this hypothetical project was shelved, that would probably be the reason an Inhumans backup strip commenced running in THOR #146, which would've been on stands roughly 3 months before its cover date of November '67.

    The regular FF mag on sale at the time was FF #68, part of the "Thinker drives the Thing crazy" storyline, so at that time Crystal was just hanging about on the periphery of the group. It would be roughly another year before she even joined the FF as a member (an issue I reviewed here.)

    Even when Kirby finally got his shot at doing an Inhumans strip in 1970-- possibly Lee's attempt to mollify the King by letting him script himself at last-- I don't think he included Crystal in those stories as a major player. But then, they were pretty forgettable stories.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothos View Post
    If JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR was correct in its speculations about the aborted series, then I would speculate that the earliest Kirby might have started roughing out the idea would have been early '67. Thus, if this hypothetical project was shelved, that would probably be the reason an Inhumans backup strip commenced running in THOR #146, which would've been on stands roughly 3 months before its cover date of November '67.

    The regular FF mag on sale at the time was FF #68, part of the "Thinker drives the Thing crazy" storyline, so at that time Crystal was just hanging about on the periphery of the group. It would be roughly another year before she even joined the FF as a member (an issue I reviewed here.)

    Even when Kirby finally got his shot at doing an Inhumans strip in 1970-- possibly Lee's attempt to mollify the King by letting him script himself at last-- I don't think he included Crystal in those stories as a major player. But then, they were pretty forgettable stories.
    Yeah, it was too little, too late by then: Kirby had had enough and an Inhumans series wasn't going to be enough to keep him happy, creatively. I don't remember much about the Amazing Adventures Inhumans other than some nice artwork.

  13. #118
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    I have to go with Jim Mooney's Supergirl. She was cute, powerful, not that much older than me; she had a sweet girl-next-door personality and flew around in a skirt.

    I also had a thing for Pam Hawley, Sgt. Fury's British girlfriend. But that may have been because of her accent.

    And my first exposure to Vampirella definitely left an impression.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodoc View Post

    And my first exposure to Vampirella definitely left an impression.
    Maybe because she had a uniform made of Dental floss.
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  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodoc View Post
    I have to go with Jim Mooney's Supergirl. She was cute, powerful, not that much older than me; she had a sweet girl-next-door personality and flew around in a skirt.

    I also had a thing for Pam Hawley, Sgt. Fury's British girlfriend. But that may have been because of her accent.

    And my first exposure to Vampirella definitely left an impression.
    I grew up with the hot pants version of Kara, so that would be my favorite version of her. Yet, I have to admit I was also smitten with Mooney's version from reprinted stories I owned. Same goes for Mary Marvel from the '40s and '50s.

    Vampirella? First saw her in 1977. Never saw a woman dressed or built like that in any of my DC and Marvel comics, that's for sure.
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