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  1. #4711
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    ...someone PM with all the changes, please. I have to go see this movie with my wife, and I don't want to honk her off by exploding out of my chair in shocked outrage every five minutes.

  2. #4712
    The Skylord FalconX2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    This does not surprise me in the slightest.
    I mean, I expect Lord of the Rings to have extended fight sequences, but the Hobbit at this point is a small scale adventure with some hijinks, curious wonders and such. I thought I might be lulled after a while, but not to find myself wanting the movie to take a breath.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegalith View Post
    Not really, the movie wouldn't have had an antagonist without him. Strictly speaking he's the father of the main Orc from the book and died before it's events, but an albino with the nickname of "the Defiler" is a more distinctive character than Bolg, making him a better fit for the pacing they decided on using.

    Strictly speaking there's six combat scenes: Two flashbacks to events from before the film, Azog's scouts, the Trolls, the escape from the Goblins and Azog's main force.
    The one where they killed 2 wargs and the one where they're running across the fields hiding and then fighting feel like 2 separate scenes.

    There wasn't a long term visibly active antagonist at this point. Bolg didn't constantly harry the dwarven party at every turn leading up to Lonely Mountain. The pacing feels off, and off in the wrong direction.

  3. #4713
    The Skylord FalconX2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    ...someone PM with all the changes, please. I have to go see this movie with my wife, and I don't want to honk her off by exploding out of my feet in shocked outrage every five minutes.
    I only read two thirds of The Hobbit, and it was a long time ago when I was a lot younger and unable to finish something that, while interesting, put me to sleep every few pages. So Siriel might be a better choice if he's watched the movie.

  4. #4714
    Strrrrrrrrrrrrex mailedbypostman1's Avatar
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    I heard that the Hobbit was a bit too much like ROTK in terms of grimness
    Strrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrex

  5. #4715
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    ...someone PM with all the changes, please. I have to go see this movie with my wife, and I don't want to honk her off by exploding out of my feet in shocked outrage every five minutes.
    spoilers:
    Radagast is a major character. They show him finding the Necromancer, and characterize Sauron as having raised the Nazgul from heavily secured tombs (offscreen). Radagast steals the Witch King's sword and runs off on a sleigh pulled by rabbits. Later, he gives Gandalf the sword and then acts as a distraction to lead off Azog's hunting party.

    Saruman and Galadriel show up at Rivendell to discuss Radagast's findings. Sauruman is convinced it's just some mortal charlatan.

    The mountain giants are literally walking mountains.

    Azog has a history with Thorin, where Thorin hacked his arm off and assumed he was dead back in the battle Azog died in in original canon.

    The Goblin King is about ten feet tall, built like a sumo and has a massive tumor hanging from his neck. He is remarkably well-spoken.
    end of spoilers

    That's about all I can think of.
    A Flock of Sheep.
    A Pack of Wolves.
    An Inconvenience of Heroes.

  6. #4716
    Have Robot, Will Smash Iron_twister's Avatar
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    So after playing Samurai Warriors 2 for a long ass time...I come to really hate Kotaro Fuma.

    The dude is just so easy to get pissed off at, both in story and gameplay. Hell, even playing as him despite his rather nice moveset wasn't fun since he mainly killed a bunch of guys just for the Hell of it-Oh wait, it's to put the land in chaos...Have I mentioned how much I hate that guy? -_-

    But I will admit, one level with him in it was pretty funny.

    Kotaro: Oh my god, a battle that will bring the land in chaos? ...Why wasn't I invited?! O_o

    Course, I kicked his sorry ass in that one.
    "This is the energy that caused the extinction of your race! Now die again!"-Musashi Tomoe

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    Please.........I go through everyone's trash.-The Question

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  7. #4717
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    .....

    spoilers:
    The business about everyone chatting about what GANDALF found in the Necromancer's place (not Radagast) is pretty much canon, but should have included everyone in the White Council. One noteable fellow is missing.

    Everything else? Cripes.

    *grinds teeth*

    Soooo...Gandalf is running around with the Witch-King's sword? Why? WHY?
    end of spoilers

    I guess Jackson figured him finding the sword of freaking TURGON wasn't cool enough. Or wouldn't resonate enough with people, despite the fact that he could explain who Turgon was and how cool this is.

  8. #4718
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    spoilers:
    Soooo...Gandalf is running around with the Witch-King's sword? Why? WHY?
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    It's only being used as evidence, and seems to just be a fairly standard Morgul blade like the one Frodo was stabbed with visually... It's just that everyone at the council recognized it's ownership on sight somehow. Gandalf is still using the ancient blade found in the Troll cave.
    end of spoilers

    The whole scene is a little confusing really.
    A Flock of Sheep.
    A Pack of Wolves.
    An Inconvenience of Heroes.

  9. #4719
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegalith View Post
    spoilers:
    It's only being used as evidence, and seems to just be a fairly standard Morgul blade like the one Frodo was stabbed with visually... It's just that everyone at the council recognized it's ownership on sight somehow. Gandalf is still using the ancient blade found in the Troll cave.
    end of spoilers

    The whole scene is a little confusing really.
    That's fine.

    spoilers:
    Though if I remember correctly, the White Council actually kind of thought it might be a Ringwraith somehow, anyway. Or some other lesser evil of Sauron's, rather than Sauron himself.

    They shouldn't need evidence, either. The only one who was actively against doing stuff about the Necromancer and trying to hide information that it was Sauron was Saruman, and even he wouldn't have been dumb enough to say 'No, can't be Sauron' after GANDALF said 'yeah, saw the evidence with my own two eyes'. And, in fact, wasn't, as that's exactly what happened in the books.

    :(
    end of spoilers

  10. #4720
    Have Robot, Will Smash Iron_twister's Avatar
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    Hmmm, I said this before but how strong do you need to be to throw a spear to impale someone at the top of a mountain?

    ...Xiahou Dun needs more love.
    "This is the energy that caused the extinction of your race! Now die again!"-Musashi Tomoe

    It's better to burn out, than to fade away!-The Kurgan

    Please.........I go through everyone's trash.-The Question

    "I said, I'm singing a song. And when someone's singing a song, YOU DON'T SHOOT THEM!"-Kenji Endo

  11. #4721
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Nice rundown on Sues, Ghost.

  12. #4722
    The Could-Have-Been King Ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    There's one thing she did right, then.
    No, see, it's more like it's one thing she didn't do wrong. I think getting something right isn't always the same thing as not messing something up.

    I basically found Bella... "not unlikable," but that's not really enough for me to enjoy the book. She's the main character, for goodness sake, she's supposed to be likable.

    Point being, it has a huge following, said following is outspoken and youthful, and it's about something that's being beaten over the head right now - urban fantasy/vampire love stories. There are tons of people out there who castigate it without ever having read the books.
    Hence why I gave it a shot - I don't want to be the kind who parrots things I know nothing about.

    But, really, I must call a bad story and bad story when I see it.

    For me, 'success' is the key.
    Yeah, but don't you want to know why? Don't you want to understand it?

    Mood.

    You said you liked Bella in the book, and honestly I found her okay.
    Yeah, but moving a hundred million copies on nothing but mood as a half-decent characters? There's got to be more to it than that.

    You're not the target audience. What appeals to them won't appeal to you.
    I'm not the target audience in that I'm not a woman, sure, but I do like romance. I should be able to enjoy a story about a girl falling in love with a vampire. That's why this is so baffling to me. oO

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegalith View Post
    They just swapped him for Bolg,
    Actually, I'm pretty sure Bolg is going to show up as well. There are already screenshots of him. Dude looks insane.

    and had him fill the same role. The only functional difference is having a visually distinct villain for the first of their three-film cycle.
    Also, the whole "You killed my grandfather!" vs "You chopped off my hand and threw it to a crocodile!" thing.

    If nothing else, there is a lot of tension between Azog and Thorin.

    Quote Originally Posted by mailedbypostman1 View Post
    I heard that the Hobbit was a bit too much like ROTK in terms of grimness
    I wouldn't say so - it's definitely more lighthearted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Nice rundown on Sues, Ghost.
    Honestly, these days I just copy and paste the same old rant with a few minor changes.
    "This doesn't look easy. But I bet it is!"
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  13. #4723
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    If you're supposed to like the central character of a series, then Stephen Donaldson absolutely sucks as a writer.

    Looking at his main two series, neither Thomas Covenant, nor Morn Hyland (The Gap Cycle) are at all sympathetic as central characters. Heck, I kept hoping Nick Succorso would throw Hyland out of an airlock.
    Yes, I know the voices aren't real. But they do have some VERY good ideas....

  14. #4724
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Honestly, these days I just copy and paste the same old rant with a few minor changes.
    It's a very good breakdown, though I'll note that there's characters with exactly the same level of story-warping prescence that aren't self-inserts... But rather a character the author is way too much of a fan of themselves.
    A Flock of Sheep.
    A Pack of Wolves.
    An Inconvenience of Heroes.

  15. #4725
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    No, see, it's more like it's one thing she didn't do wrong. I think getting something right isn't always the same thing as not messing something up.

    I basically found Bella... "not unlikable," but that's not really enough for me to enjoy the book. She's the main character, for goodness sake, she's supposed to be likable.
    I found the character likeable enough, for myself. But it's very likely that teen girls - the target audience - identified with her more. Which I suspect is sort of important for the teen romance crowd - the capacity to imagine themselves in that position.

    Without that, there's a problem.

    Hence why I gave it a shot - I don't want to be the kind who parrots things I know nothing about.
    Always a good thing.

    But, really, I must call a bad story and bad story when I see it.
    Personal opinion being what it is, sure.

    I suspect millions of readers of the series would disagree. :)

    Yeah, but don't you want to know why? Don't you want to understand it?
    Not really. She pulled it off. She hit her target audience with enough of what they needed to really latch onto the books, as well as being in the right place with those books at the right time.

    Stuff like that happens in the publishing business.

    I suspect that if one starts looking for specific causes for 'why a large group of people liked something', one could very well run into some serious problems working it through.

    Yeah, but moving a hundred million copies on nothing but mood as a half-decent characters? There's got to be more to it than that.
    Probably is. Which is why I figure that while I'm not a huge fan, it doesn't mean it's crap, and there's obviously a great deal of stuff there her target audience liked.

    Hence, success.

    I'm not the target audience in that I'm not a woman, sure, but I do like romance. I should be able to enjoy a story about a girl falling in love with a vampire. That's why this is so baffling to me. oO
    Enjoyment and appreciation of entertainment is subjective. There's no magic formula. You didn't like it, they did.

    If you want to read more into it, try to figure out why, by all means, but it takes nothing away from Meyer's success. :)

    Honestly, these days I just copy and paste the same old rant with a few minor changes.
    It works.

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