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  1. #4441
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
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    But we're special, pretty and unique butterflies!
    Suffering is a fact of life. You survive if you find a reason to endure it.

  2. #4442
    Archnemesis of Reason FarBeyondC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    It doesn't help that humans in fiction are almost invariably set up as 'more diverse and adaptable' than any other race.

    Bleah.
    I like the idea of humans being diverse and adaptable.

    More than everything else?

    Most likely not.
    "That which does not grow falls into decay."

    Utopia - Tetra Eisengard
    Lockdown - Kalak Fenras

  3. #4443
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol M View Post
    I suspect generalizations like that mostly comes from "As a race, they're better at engineering/blacksmithing than humans. Almost any dwarf is better than almost any human at that stuff."

    It still gets exaggerated to the point of silliness sometimes, but it doesn't necessarily have to be inaccurate.
    Well, no, but my beef is more with the exaggeration.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    It doesn't help that humans in fiction are almost invariably set up as 'more diverse and adaptable' than any other race.

    Bleah.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    But we're special, pretty and unique butterflies!
    Quote Originally Posted by FarBeyondC View Post
    I like the idea of humans being diverse and adaptable.

    More than everything else?

    Most likely not.
    Sadly, reminds me of how in less fantastical fiction, this equates to racial stereotyping, how white people can be anything, but any other ethnicity is relegated to specific roles. I suspect the same bias is just projected onto the fantasy races model.
    It's a lie! My pants were off the entire time!

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  4. #4444
    Archnemesis of Reason FarBeyondC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkerbob View Post
    Sadly, reminds me of how in less fantastical fiction, this equates to racial stereotyping, how white people can be anything, but any other ethnicity is relegated to specific roles. I suspect the same bias is just projected onto the fantasy races model.
    That's exactly what it is. Fantastic Racism.
    "That which does not grow falls into decay."

    Utopia - Tetra Eisengard
    Lockdown - Kalak Fenras

  5. #4445
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkerbob View Post
    One of the reasons the Trekverse got boring for me by the time I hit middle school. Still, you'll usually find this kind of stereotyping for most any fantasy race: dwarves are all good at engineering/blacksmithing, Elves are all pretty and snobbish, Dark Elves are all evil, etc. Obviously there's exceptions, but mostly that's how things get presented, as being a certain species can be used as a shorthand to identify and archetypal personality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sol M View Post
    I suspect generalizations like that mostly comes from "As a race, they're better at engineering/blacksmithing than humans. Almost any dwarf is better than almost any human at that stuff."

    It still gets exaggerated to the point of silliness sometimes, but it doesn't necessarily have to be inaccurate.
    I suppose the best way to avoid this is to focus less on what personality they typically have or what they're generally good at... And more on the implications of what physical traits they have and how their psychology fundamentally differs from that of a human.

    Bad: "Elves are jolly, optimistic yet arrogant and slow to change. They are good at archery, hunting, stealth and craftsmanship."

    Good: "Elves are physically incapable of feeling sorrow and have relatively little capacity for fear, though have more subtle permutations of happiness and anger than most humans. They also have an emotion known as "Lypothimie" which is as difficult to explain to someone who cannot experience it as sorrow is to explain to them, though it can very loosely be equated to intense nostalgia.

    They live for over two centuries and have long, dextrous limbs, slight frames and extremely potent senses due to having evolved from apex predators. On average, elves are taller, faster and more agile than humans, but tend towards lower stamina and greater frailty."

    Both of the above lead to a similar society, but the latter is guidelines for the general traits of an inhuman species rather a stereotype for some pointy-eared guys who like living in touch with nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by FarBeyondC View Post
    That's exactly what it is. Fantastic Racism.
    Everything sounds less bad when you can call it fantastic.
    A Flock of Sheep.
    A Pack of Wolves.
    An Inconvenience of Heroes.

  6. #4446
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    But we're special, pretty and unique butterflies!
    Indeed.

    Hence, in one of my series the most standout things about humans being that they breed like rabbits compared to everyone else and as a group have the emotional maturity of weasels (compared to the other four races). As such, they're easily manipulated into committing genocide on a non-human race, and enslaving another.

    Granted, the main characters are all human, but they've got to redeem humanity somehow, given their people have gone and messed up the world. ^_^

  7. #4447
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    CJ Cherryh's Foreigner series (now at a dozen books or more) does a splendid job of highlighting relations between humans and a race that doesn't just not 'think' like them, but doesn't feel like humans do.

    And she doesn't present it as 'Humans are fundamentally better because we have luuuuv' or anything like that.

    It's good stuff, though some might find it dry. A lot of it is the central character (a human) trying to feel his way through the atevi situations (he's one of the only humans around in his neck of the woods - basically, he's an ambassador, only that's a gross simplification) because he's simply not hardwired to think and feel as they do. And he confuses the heck out of them for the same reason.

  8. #4448
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Hence, in one of my series the most standout things about humans being that they breed like rabbits compared to everyone else
    That's one of the main selling points of humans in the Animorphs series too: The parasitic brain-slug species like us as potential hosts because apparently we have ludicrously high numbers for a species confined to a single planet. Here's a direct quote from the book narrated by the Scout who located Earth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Visser
    "I contacted the Empire. They threatened me, of course. I had stolen a ship and disappeared. But then I said the magic words: Class-Five species." Even now, even here in this terrible situation, I savored the memory. "It was a sub-visser Ninety-two I spoke with first. ‘I have located a Class-Five species,' I told him. ‘A Class-Five species with superior dexterity and above average sensory capabilities.'

    "'Numbers?' the sub-visser demanded.

    "'Five billion. Give or take.'

    "I remember the way the sub-visser sat bolt upright. I believe he cut himself with his own Hork-Bajir blades.

    "He repeated it back, cautiously. ‘You mean five million, Sub-Visser?'

    "‘No, Sub-Visser,' I said. ‘I mean five billion. As in five thousand millions.'
    ...Of course the other advantage we have is apparently our technology is advancing faster than is normal.
    A Flock of Sheep.
    A Pack of Wolves.
    An Inconvenience of Heroes.

  9. #4449
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    If you read Consider Phlebas (the first of the Culture novels), the war between the Culture and the Idirans is basically an idealogical one, and as you find out what the Idirans' view is, you're left thinking "Ya know? They have a point. Humans are dicks."

    Of course, they still lose to the Culture.
    Yes, I know the voices aren't real. But they do have some VERY good ideas....

  10. #4450
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    If you read Consider Phlebas (the first of the Culture novels), the war between the Culture and the Idirans is basically an idealogical one, and as you find out what the Idirans' view is, you're left thinking "Ya know? They have a point. Humans are dicks."

    Of course, they still lose to the Culture.
    I dunno, I found them almost cartoonishly unsympathetic. They're basically blindly religious imperialistic supremacists highly bigoted against all machine life and inclined to think of all other life as inferior as well.
    A Flock of Sheep.
    A Pack of Wolves.
    An Inconvenience of Heroes.

  11. #4451
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegalith View Post
    I dunno, I found them almost cartoonishly unsympathetic. They're basically blindly religious imperialistic supremacists highly bigoted against all machine life and inclined to think of all other life as inferior as well.
    They're not without their flaws, granted. :)
    Yes, I know the voices aren't real. But they do have some VERY good ideas....

  12. #4452
    McNinja Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    It doesn't help that humans in fiction are almost invariably set up as 'more diverse and adaptable' than any other race.

    Bleah.
    Considering stat-bumps, skill bonuses, extended lifespans, etc Humans needed something to make them worth taking in an RPG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Illidania
    Thanos, after working down a bag of pot, and chugging down one of Galactus' Cosmo Beers, started spouting off hysterical nonsense about destroying the multiverse with his mightpowers. Then, while holding up one of those rubber gloves you wear while doing dishes, slurring out that it's the Infinity Gauntlet, Squirrel girl pounces him to the ground where he passes out on the spot. Uatu then comes in and congratulates SG for saving the multiverse! :D

    ......oh wait, that actualy happened. :p

  13. #4453
    When the two Meet... The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Indeed.

    Hence, in one of my series the most standout things about humans being that they breed like rabbits compared to everyone else and as a group have the emotional maturity of weasels (compared to the other four races). As such, they're easily manipulated into committing genocide on a non-human race, and enslaving another.

    Granted, the main characters are all human, but they've got to redeem humanity somehow, given their people have gone and messed up the world. ^_^
    Wait... Sharpandpointies is Alan Dean Foster??

  14. #4454
    God Of Tokusatsu Guy1's Avatar
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    My RPG Site!

  15. #4455
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    I actually think I prefer the Lois and Clark theme, just for the nostalgia factor.

    Sure I know it's not a particularly great show now, but as a 6-10 year old kid with access to five TV channels that was the version of Superman I grew up watching.
    A Flock of Sheep.
    A Pack of Wolves.
    An Inconvenience of Heroes.

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