Downtown Khazan: Siriel's Temporary Edition

[Crimson Dragoon]

Is it too cliche to have analogs to the seven deadly sins when creating a group of demons?

dear god, yes it is

it's been overplayed to hell (no pun intended) and back

[Beadle]

Is it too cliche to have analogs to the seven deadly sins when creating a group of demons?

It would be a better twist to have demons representing Faith, Hope & Charity, or some such reversal of the norms. Have Faith be blind, and a master illusionist, causing people to blindly believe whatever he tells them. Just as an example.

[The MunchKING]

So is she, like, training Twilight to be her successor or something?

...Actually, now that I think about it, "Twilight" fits the whole night and day theme. oO

It sorta sounded like it.

And there has been some... Interesting art around.

[Omegalith]

So is she, like, training Twilight to be her successor or something?

...Actually, now that I think about it, "Twilight" fits the whole night and day theme. oO

There actually was a *lot* of foreshadowing, both in the episode and in previews for the rest of the season that Celestia and Luna blatantly have something planned in regards to Twilight.

Amusingly, in regards to the day/night theme, of the three Alicorns we've seen so far we have one who looks after the day, one who looks after the night and one who babysat Twilight.

[The MunchKING]

I could see where that could get very bad quickly...

[Farealmer]

It would be a better twist to have demons representing Faith, Hope & Charity, or some such reversal of the norms. Have Faith be blind, and a master illusionist, causing people to blindly believe whatever he tells them. Just as an example.

...You fucking genius, i could kiss you. That gives me a brillant idea for another OC of mine, Dis-Conia, who is half angel and half demon. I wanted to give him powers based on reversing aspects of good and evil(for example he curses water instead of blessing it and uses holyfire instead of hellfire) i just couldn't think of anything else so i scrapped it. But giving him abilities based on sins changed to virtues and virtues twisted to sins would fit that bill so much better.

Thank You!

[Beadle]

No problem! :)

[The MunchKING]

Crystal Empire speculation:

spoilers:

I wonder if the Crystal Heart has more general anti-curse properties as well as the whole 'power the Crystal Empire" thing? If you look at Somber, as soon as he got close to the Heart he went from his big shadow-demonic form back to the aforementioned evil unicorn.

end of spoilers

As was this Spike's first actual singing/dancing role? He was amusing.

I know he played the piano in the old timey Western Stage, but IIRC this is his first time singing.

[Omegalith]

Yeah, the sins are definately cliche, and not even that great a basis:

Greed and Gluttony: An obsessively avaricious demon lord is a good base to cover, though gluttony is a mere subset of greed.
Pride and Envy: The majority of demons should have a lot of pride and prey on mortal's envy as one of the major levers. Unless you're going for some sort of heavy handed message about evil being pathetic, the only thing most demons should truly envy is more powerful demons. Envying the good only really makes sense if the demon acknowledges nice guys as superior to himself, which is a really weird opinion for a personification of evil to hold.
Sloth: Kinda dull. Also a huge weakness that his rivals should quickly exploit.
Wrath: Well of course you'll have incredibly wrathful demons. No need to limit this trait to being a defining characteristic of only one of them though.
Lust: Succubi and Incubi are a popular subset to include. Much like wrath and greed though, this is a fairly common thing amongst demons.

As for portraying traditionally "positive" emotions and virtues as areas a demon focuses on... I like it.

Faith: Even when it isn't blind, faith has a lot of negatives. Sure it makes you feel good and gives you mental endurance, but it also clouds openness to new ideas even in fairly small doses, and can drive you to have unpleasant goals and habits that you aren't willing to reconsider. Faith makes you sure that certain assumptions are correct, and when it's manipulated correctly that can be dangerous.
Joy: Decadence, basically. Obsessing over joy can lead you to extremes of passion, and even make you hollow when it's pursued to the exclusion of more lasting, subtle forms of satisfaction.
Hope: Close to faith, in a lot of ways. More subtle though, as getting too wrapped up in hope can lead to not taking action to fix whatever problem you're having. Hope can fend off despair, but can also lead to wallowing in it.
Love: A strong passion, and not one that always makes much sense. Too much love at the wrong time and place can lead to you giving too much of yourself, to staying in an unhealthy relationship, or to obsessively pursuing a relationship with someone who clearly doesn't want to be around you.
Intellect: You can't truly remove the influence of emotion from your actions, and so convincing yourself you have and that you are already close to having a perfect intellect is very dangerous. Basically a form of arrogance.
Valor: Too much bravery lead to a lot of messes, and nothing guarantees you're being brave in the pursuit of a noble end.

Basically, any emotion can be a horrible thing with the right leverage or the wrong circumstances.

[Omegalith]

As was this Spike's first actual singing/dancing role? He was amusing.

I know he played the piano in the old timey Western Stage, but IIRC this is his first time singing.

I think so. Honestly, they seemed to struggle a touch to naturally fit the songs into the flow of the episode.

Some Sombra comics.

[Farealmer]

Yeah, the sins are definately cliche, and not even that great a basis:

Greed and Gluttony: An obsessively avaricious demon lord is a good base to cover, though gluttony is a mere subset of greed.
Pride and Envy: The majority of demons should have a lot of pride and prey on mortal's envy as one of the major levers. Unless you're going for some sort of heavy handed message about evil being pathetic, the only thing most demons should truly envy is more powerful demons. Envying the good only really makes sense if the demon acknowledges nice guys as superior to himself, which is a really weird opinion for a personification of evil to hold.
Sloth: Kinda dull. Also a huge weakness that his rivals should quickly exploit.
Wrath: Well of course you'll have incredibly wrathful demons. No need to limit this trait to being a defining characteristic of only one of them though.
Lust: Succubi and Incubi are a popular subset to include. Much like wrath and greed though, this is a fairly common thing amongst demons.

Well it all depends on how you handle it. For example my idea for the representitive of gluttony will be a swarm of self replicating demonic nanomachines that "eat" everything they come into contact with. Envy will manifest inside objects and swap places with other beings, trapping their soul in the object while it steals their body.

[Omegalith]

I like this guy, and wish to subscribe to his newsletter.

[Omegalith]

Well it all depends on how you handle it.

Any idea can be executed well, it's just not that great a starting point.

Heck, the Fullmetal Alchemist sin-based Homunculi are great characters. Tank-Fighting Cavalry-Saber Hitler! Creepy Shadow-Monster Kid! Slow, Grumpy Super-speedy Muscleman! Treacherous But Pretty Chill Symbiote! Horrible Androgynous Dragon Blob! Fingernail Lass! Chubby Dude!

[Iron_twister]

...You know, I really regretted not reading Vinland Saga sooner...Cause Thorkell's a freaking badass.



God, it makes me want to pit him against a character in Ravages of Time. O_O

[Yun Lao]

As for portraying traditionally "positive" emotions and virtues as areas a demon focuses on... I like it.

Faith: Even when it isn't blind, faith has a lot of negatives. Sure it makes you feel good and gives you mental endurance, but it also clouds openness to new ideas even in fairly small doses, and can drive you to have unpleasant goals and habits that you aren't willing to reconsider. Faith makes you sure that certain assumptions are correct, and when it's manipulated correctly that can be dangerous.
Joy: Decadence, basically. Obsessing over joy can lead you to extremes of passion, and even make you hollow when it's pursued to the exclusion of more lasting, subtle forms of satisfaction.
Hope: Close to faith, in a lot of ways. More subtle though, as getting too wrapped up in hope can lead to not taking action to fix whatever problem you're having. Hope can fend off despair, but can also lead to wallowing in it.
Love: A strong passion, and not one that always makes much sense. Too much love at the wrong time and place can lead to you giving too much of yourself, to staying in an unhealthy relationship, or to obsessively pursuing a relationship with someone who clearly doesn't want to be around you.
Intellect: You can't truly remove the influence of emotion from your actions, and so convincing yourself you have and that you are already close to having a perfect intellect is very dangerous. Basically a form of arrogance.
Valor: Too much bravery lead to a lot of messes, and nothing guarantees you're being brave in the pursuit of a noble end.

Basically, any emotion can be a horrible thing with the right leverage or the wrong circumstances.

If one is going to do the opposite, then it may fit a bit more to use the traditional seven heavenly/catholic virtues: Chastity, Temperance, Charity, Diligence, Patience, Kindness, and Humility.