Page 9 of 16 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 233
  1. #121
    The Central Sca-rutinizer Pól Rua's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    17,262

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman9 View Post
    3. Obviously From Hell is not a kids book, (neither is Watchmen), but I stand by my word that comics don't need to have such explicit sex.
    Comics don't NEED anything. It's art.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman9 View Post
    but something so graphic and explicit could be done without.
    It's a story. It's not oxygen. And, as an adult, I resent you deciding for me what I can and can't read. It's annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman9 View Post
    I guarantee you that if you just showed a 9-11 year old boy that page, they would go pretty crazy over it. It's essentially picture porn.
    It's not aimed at 9-11 year olds.
    You know, like some films aren't, some novels aren't... Plus, Eddie Campbell draws dog-fuck ugly people for the most part. They'd probably bitch over the fact that it doesn't look like Jim Lee or Jim Balent or Joe Linsner or whoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman9 View Post
    From Hell isn't a hero book, it's a book about a killer, and it didn't need to have something like that.
    'From Hell... is a book about a killer'. Hot fuck that's some insightful shit right there. Damn, you should get in touch with Top Shelf, maybe they can stick that on the back cover of the next printing.
    'From Hell' is about a lot of things, and one of them is a Victorian attitude to sex that meant that the brutal murders of certain people didn't matter because it was just better not to talk about that sort of thing. Oh the irony, oh the etch-a-sketching, oh the joyful, rosy-cheeked capering!

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman9 View Post
    It could have just been implied or whatever-but it wasn't necessary to the story and therefore it could have been done without. As it should have in my opinion.
    Tell you what, when you write your meticulously and painstakingly researched massive metaphysical opus, you can leave out the fucking.
    Until then, if you don't like it, don't read it and let adults make their own choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    No, he sounds like those busybodies who get told about a TV show and then start a crusade about how "that shouldn't be on the air!"
    "I don't wanna see that, so nobody else should be able to either!" Seriously, fuck off with that shit.
    Yup. Just because you're no a diet doesn't mean I can't enjoy this doughnut.
    "Loudly proclaiming that you are above childish things isn't a sign of maturity - it's proof of adolescence." - Schnitzy Pretzelpants

    Co-host of The 'Mike & Pól Save The Universe' Comics podcast - check it out on www.mikeandpol.com

  2. #122
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Belgium.
    Posts
    31,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald M. View Post
    Eh, to me, "It's not porn, it's erotica!" sounds a bit like, "They're not toys, they're collectibles!" or "They're not comics, they're Graphic Novels!" If you aren't ashamed of your interests, there's no reason to quibble about terms or to make excuses.
    Here's the thing... The From Hell scene is question isn't porn, it's not even erotica.
    It's not a scene that is in the slightest arousing or intended to be arousing.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  3. #123
    Be Right Back... Spike-X's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Just above Tasmania
    Posts
    34,928

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pól Rua View Post
    Yup. Just because you're no a diet doesn't mean I can't enjoy this doughnut.
    Are you saying I'm fat?
    Christ, do I have to do all the thinking for the entire fucking Internet? - Michael P

  4. #124
    The Central Sca-rutinizer Pól Rua's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    17,262

    Default

    You're choc-full of righteousness!
    When it comes to righteousness, you're a fat-fat-fattie!

    Also, doughnuts are tasty.
    "Loudly proclaiming that you are above childish things isn't a sign of maturity - it's proof of adolescence." - Schnitzy Pretzelpants

    Co-host of The 'Mike & Pól Save The Universe' Comics podcast - check it out on www.mikeandpol.com

  5. #125
    Be Right Back... Spike-X's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Just above Tasmania
    Posts
    34,928

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pól Rua View Post
    You're choc-full of righteousness!
    And chocolate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pól Rua View Post
    When it comes to righteousness, you're a fat-fat-fattie!
    I am rotund with rectitude! Stout with seemliness! Corpulent with correctness!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pól Rua View Post
    Also, doughnuts are tasty.
    Yiz.
    Christ, do I have to do all the thinking for the entire fucking Internet? - Michael P

  6. #126
    Big Hairy Member JeffreyWKramer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    14,762

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman9 View Post
    Just some clarifications
    1. I didn't attempt to sound homophobic
    Yet you managed to do so, by bringing up the topic in a completely irrelevant manner. Amazing, that.

    2. I was not proposing a strict limit on sex in comics
    No, you just seem to think you have a good idea what the right amount of sex is. More reasonable people would leave that assumption to individual readers and to the creators of the comics.

    3. Obviously From Hell is not a kids book, (neither is Watchmen), but I stand by my word that comics don't need to have such explicit sex.
    And why should anyone care what you think about this topic? If you don't like something, don't buy it, but don't presume to believe your tastes should mean anything to anyone but yourself.

    Either get something like Alan Moore's Lost Girls if you're into that kind of stuff in comics, but something so graphic and explicit could be done without.
    Obviously Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell disagree with you, as do the many critics who have praised FROM HELL over the years. I'll take Alan's word over yours re: what "comics should be," thanks.

    I guarantee you that if you just showed a 9-11 year old boy that page, they would go pretty crazy over it. It's essentially picture porn.
    First off, kids will go crazy over seeing pictures of women wearing bras and panties in a JC Penney ad flyer. Second, context matters. One could take a sex scene from something like SCHINDLER'S LIST and portray it as mere titillation, but doing so would a) do the film a disservice, and b) demonstrate the person who did that to be an ignorant twit.

    4. Yeah, it's sad that sex is more taboo than murder in entertainment media- but it is. Murderous themes aren't shocking to anyone anymore, so it's not a big deal. But porn in comics isn't expected or necessary. From Hell isn't a hero book, it's a book about a killer, and it didn't need to have something like that. It could have just been implied or whatever-but it wasn't necessary to the story and therefore it could have been done without. As it should have in my opinion.
    You apparently haven't even read the book in question. As such, you have no context upon which to base an informed opinion.
    My Cooking Blog!


    KRAMER'S LAWS:
    1) Most people are stupid.
    2) Most people who aren't stupid often behave as if they were stupid.
    3) Many people who are not stupid nonetheless believe a lot of astonishingly stupid things.

    “really? isnt the bible millions of years old?” – curefreak
    “Yep. It was originally written by a stegosaurus and a fern.” – Dan Apodaca

  7. #127
    Big Hairy Member JeffreyWKramer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    14,762

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deep_Sleeper View Post
    Ah yes...I guess I should have clarified. I was looking for input from some of the posters on here.
    Because they're fantastic artists who have a solid sense of how to depict sexuality in a manner that is actually erotic, as opposed to merely exploitative.
    My Cooking Blog!


    KRAMER'S LAWS:
    1) Most people are stupid.
    2) Most people who aren't stupid often behave as if they were stupid.
    3) Many people who are not stupid nonetheless believe a lot of astonishingly stupid things.

    “really? isnt the bible millions of years old?” – curefreak
    “Yep. It was originally written by a stegosaurus and a fern.” – Dan Apodaca

  8. #128
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Suffolk, England
    Posts
    3,113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald M. View Post
    Eh, to me, "It's not porn, it's erotica!" sounds a bit like, "They're not toys, they're collectibles!" or "They're not comics, they're Graphic Novels!" If you aren't ashamed of your interests, there's no reason to quibble about terms or to make excuses.
    Whether you believe it or not, there is a difference. And for the record: I'm ashamed of nothing. I own a copy of Lost Girls, which even its creators regarded as porn (and, indeed, created as porn, to make a point). I also own quite a bit of Milo Manara's stuff, and I do not consider it porn. It's all in how it's presented to the reader.

  9. #129
    Elder Member jesse_custer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    20,646

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman9 View Post
    I guarantee you that if you just showed a 9-11 year old boy that page, they would go pretty crazy over it. It's essentially picture porn.
    But why would you show the boy this page? Porn is designed with an audience in mind; I really doubt Alan Moore designed From Hell for a 9-year-old boy.

    Hell, when I was a boy, I wanted to see Disney princesses naked. Does that mean The Little Mermaid is porn?

  10. #130
    Elder Member jesse_custer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    20,646

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman9 View Post
    If you tell me that you 100% honestly believe that that page (for example) could not have been done in a manner where it didn't show her vagina and them having sex while still getting the information across, I'll believe you.
    This is unfair. Any page can be done in a number of manners.

    But why bitch about vaginas? Why not bitch about murder and profanity, too? I'm sure we could tell a story about Jack the Ripper without any violence or cuss words. We could just suggest the hell out of everything - then read it to our fucking kids!

  11. #131
    Big Hairy Member JeffreyWKramer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    14,762

    Default

    I don't consider porn/erotica to be an "either/or" thing. Porn exists, essentially, soley for purposes of sexual arousal. Erotica is intended to be sexually interesting, but to also have more to it than that: artistic or literary value, or some message, or what have you. So, Erotica = Porn +. Good erotica can work well as porn, if one wants to enjoy it at that level, but there's a lot more going on in something like LOST GIRLS than there is some Brazzers vid clip. LOST GIRLS utilizes irony and symbolism and metaphor and a complex mix of artistic styles while attempting to say some things about a lot of topics, and does so pretty well in my opinion. In contrast, there is no depth or symbolism or subtext or message to the Brazzers clip. It is about nothing but a chick with big boobs getting penetrated in various orifices before taking one or more facial cumshots. YMMV as to whether that's okay or not, but whichever way you feel about that, it's important to not classify two things as the same just because they both involve imagery of people engaged in sex acts.
    My Cooking Blog!


    KRAMER'S LAWS:
    1) Most people are stupid.
    2) Most people who aren't stupid often behave as if they were stupid.
    3) Many people who are not stupid nonetheless believe a lot of astonishingly stupid things.

    “really? isnt the bible millions of years old?” – curefreak
    “Yep. It was originally written by a stegosaurus and a fern.” – Dan Apodaca

  12. #132
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,887

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffreyWKramer View Post
    I don't consider porn/erotica to be an "either/or" thing. Porn exists, essentially, soley for purposes of sexual arousal. Erotica is intended to be sexually interesting, but to also have more to it than that: artistic or literary value, or some message, or what have you. So, Erotica = Porn +. Good erotica can work well as porn, if one wants to enjoy it at that level, but there's a lot more going on in something like LOST GIRLS than there is some Brazzers vid clip. LOST GIRLS utilizes irony and symbolism and metaphor and a complex mix of artistic styles while attempting to say some things about a lot of topics, and does so pretty well in my opinion. In contrast, there is no depth or symbolism or subtext or message to the Brazzers clip. It is about nothing but a chick with big boobs getting penetrated in various orifices before taking one or more facial cumshots. YMMV as to whether that's okay or not, but whichever way you feel about that, it's important to not classify two things as the same just because they both involve imagery of people engaged in sex acts.
    OTOH, there's the famous phrase attributed to feminist journalist Ellen Willis:

    In practice, attempts to sort out good erotica from bad porn inevitably comes down to "What turns me on is erotic; what turns you on is pornographic."

  13. #133
    Senior Member Batman9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    2,958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald M. View Post
    Yes we can. Yours, for example.



    Yes we are. You're asking if sex can ever be handled in a mature manner in comics. The answer is yes. The genre is mostly irrelevant to this. Mostly. There's probably no good way to handle a sex scene in a children's comic.



    A story can be about more than one thing. A sex scene does not automatically make a film a porno. You've really never seen an action movie or a thriller or a drama with a sex scene in it? Or maybe you have and walked out because you got confused and believed you'd walked into a porno by accident?


    As to the question posed in the thread title, if sex in comics is mature or juvenile, well, sometimes it's juvenile, sometimes it isn't. It depends on how the subject is handled and frankly, to an extent, the maturity of the person reading the book. It's not an either/or question.
    Don't twist words. I never asked if can be handled in a mature manner in comics. I asked if it's Juvenile or Mature. The answer is someone's opinion. Maybe mine isn't like yours, but it's mine.

  14. #134
    Senior Member Batman9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    2,958

    Default

    Porn is meant to stimulate- The example of From Hell is supposed to stimulate. It didn't need to be so graphic, but it was. Therefore, it was meant to stimulate. I'm sure the book is great. I just don't like how it has such graphic sex. It's unneeded and certainly unwanted (for me). I mean, it's pretty gross, comic book sex.
    I'm glad to see that in this debate people have started to devolve into grammar nazi's. I guess there's not much of an arguement from Spike if that's all he's got.

  15. #135
    Senior Member Batman9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    2,958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald M. View Post
    Your attitude makes you seem immature and childish. Sexualization is never necessary but nor is it always exploitative. Sex is part of life and sometimes stories aimed at mature readers depict or describe sex. It's only a big deal if you make it out to be.

    You seem to have some issues with sexuality. You should probably deal with those.
    I'm not sure where in that quote you got the idea that I am having confused thought's about my sexual orientation. Please tell me.
    Sex is a part of life, but I'm saying it shouldn't be so graphic like that UNLESS it's a porn comic.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •