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  1. #1216
    Here we ..... go DennyK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    The overrated RG3 is hurt again. I've heard a lot about both of them, but while they deserve some credit, they are not as impressive as Manning or Peterson. Nowhere near it, in fact.
    Can't agree with your other post regarding RGIII as overrated. Also can't agree with the statement that neither is nowhere near deserving the credit that Manning or Peterson this year. For the most part, Luck has led the same team that won, what 1 game, 2 games last season to 9 wins and counting this season. To discount that seems rather foolish. With regard to RGIII, IMO if anybody is overrated in DC it's the head coach.

  2. #1217
    Elder Member jesse_custer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    Hype is about style. Rating is about substance. His substantive importance to the Redskins is undeniable and hard to overstate. (Doesn't mean that other people aren't also important. But their importance doesn't diminish his.) The hyping of him as the "next great thing" and "the best player in the NFL" blah, blah is over the top and getting to be tiresome. There's no question about that.

    And I don't know who you've been listening/talking to, but the notion that Kyle Shanahan and Alfred Morris aren't getting any credit is simply untrue. I've heard praise being handed to them frequently by national commentators on multiple fronts, from the announcers who call the games, to the talking heads who preview them before and analyze them afterwards. I've heard it from columnists, analysts, former players, former coaches. When talk turns to what actually wins games--on a substantive level--they certainly haven't been left out of the discussion. On a purely style level, yeah, Griffin has been getting the bulk of the constant carnival barker treatment because his name/face is what catches the eye of viewers/readers. That's where overhyping comes in.
    I didn't say Shanahan and Morris haven't gotten any credit; it's just true that they don't receive as much substantive credit as RG3 at times. I've been watching games, listening to sports radio, and reading sports articles.

    Again, RG3 is very entertaining; without a doubt, he lives up to the hype. But from a standpoint of substance, he has been overrated.

  3. #1218
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennyK View Post
    CFor the most part, Luck has led the same team that won, what 1 game, 2 games last season to 9 wins and counting this season. To discount that seems rather foolish.
    No. No he has not. This Colts team is massively different to the one that played last year. The most valuable employee in the Colts franchise this year was Ryan Griggson, not Andrew Luck.

    Now, it is fair to heap praise on Luck for how well he's played, and I'm continously flabbergasted at how he comes up big in high-pressure situations again and again, but this was not the same team that Curtis Painter and Dan Orslovsky "ran" last year, with the exception of a few notable names.

  4. #1219
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    I didn't say Shanahan and Morris haven't gotten any credit; it's just true that they don't receive as much substantive credit as RG3 at times. I've been watching games, listening to sports radio, and reading sports articles.
    They haven't gotten as much credit because they don't deserve as much. They've contributed to the team's success significantly, but not as much as Griffin. (How did the Shanahan's look in DC before Griffin got there?) Without him none of it works, so he's earned more credit than the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    Again, RG3 is very entertaining; without a doubt, he lives up to the hype. But from a standpoint of substance, he has been overrated.
    You do realize that saying things like "without a doubt" and " there's no question about that" doesn't actually eliminate doubt and questions about what you say, right? (To wit: There's no doubt that Griffin is the most important piece of the Redskins puzzle by far and there's no question that, as good as he is, the hype machine around him has been over-the top.) And the hype surrounding Griffin hasn't had much to do with his "entertainment" value anyway; it's really been mostly about showering him with superlatives in order to stir up noise over his place among great quarterbacks/players. And given that he's not even through his first season yet, on a team that's still in a dogfight to claw its way into the playoffs, anointing him with all-time greatness (which is what the hype machine's been doing, in order to draw viewers and readers) seems premature and overblown. The guy's a damn good quarterback with a bright future. Going much beyond that right not is overhyping.
    Last edited by kalorama; 12-11-2012 at 08:21 AM.

  5. #1220
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    Houston got ball gagged and paddled last night
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  6. #1221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    Houston got ball gagged and paddled last night
    Except most people who get ball-gagged and paddled submit willingly and enjoy the experience.

  7. #1222
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    If my Patriots should be so lucky as to meet them again, most likely in Houston this time, the stomping that happened will only motivate them. They'll have Brooks Reed back, but we should have Gronk back as well. If we can get Donte Stallworth to do that stretch the field thing at least once a game (even just for big yardage or a pass interference call, instead of a score) I think we can match up well. Not as well as last night, but I think we have a shot. It's the Broncos I'm afraid of travelling to face. We have bad luck against them in Denver, and Peyton Manning for the last 5 years in general. Combine the two I see a short postseason ahead.
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  8. #1223
    Elder Member jesse_custer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennyK View Post
    Can't agree with your other post regarding RGIII as overrated. Also can't agree with the statement that neither is nowhere near deserving the credit that Manning or Peterson this year. For the most part, Luck has led the same team that won, what 1 game, 2 games last season to 9 wins and counting this season. To discount that seems rather foolish. With regard to RGIII, IMO if anybody is overrated in DC it's the head coach.
    Mike Shanahan has won two Super Bowls and made the Redskins a smarter team, so I'm not convinced that he's overrated in comparison to two rookie quarterbacks, one of whom has been injured twice for dumb plays and the other leading the NFL in turnovers. Plus, neither rookie is coming off injuries that have ended other people's careers. Manning and Peterson shine the brightest in all respects.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    They haven't gotten as much credit because they don't deserve as much. They've contributed to the team's success significantly, but not as much as Griffin. (How did the Shanahan's look in DC before Griffin got there?) Without him none of it works, so he's earned more credit than the rest.



    You do realize that saying things like "without a doubt" and " there's no question about that" doesn't actually eliminate doubt and questions about what you say, right? (To wit: There's no doubt that Griffin is the most important piece of the Redskins puzzle by far and there's no question that, as good as he is, the hype machine around him has been over-the top.) And the hype surrounding Griffin hasn't had much to do with his "entertainment" value anyway; it's really been mostly about showering him with superlatives in order to stir up noise over his place among great quarterbacks/players. And given that he's not even through his first season yet, on a team that's still in a dogfight to claw its way into the playoffs, anointing him with all-time greatness (which is what the hype machine's been doing, in order to draw viewers and readers) seems premature and overblown. The guy's a damn good quarterback with a bright future. Going much beyond that right not is overhyping.
    The Shanahans and Morris deserve as much credit because Griffin has more turnovers and/or injuries if not for them. Griffin deserves more credit for making the team popular.

    You do realize that it's my opinion when I say "without a doubt," as in there is no doubt in my mind. Couple this petty criticism of phrasing with the last part of your post in which you admit that RG3 is overrated, and we have a perfect example of semantics.
    Last edited by jesse_custer; 12-11-2012 at 10:22 AM.

  9. #1224
    Senior Member finfangfool's Avatar
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    If the question is whether or not he should be in the conversation with Brady, Peyton, or Rodgers I'd say no, and anyone saying otherwise is overhyping him. But if I were a Redskins fan I'd be pretty damned excited about my team right now (which is more than they've been able to say on a consistent basis in many a year). Even being in the playoff hunt with this kid is more than all but the biggest Redskins homers were expecting (and that's including the fact that their defense was projected to be much better than it has been). If they make it that far (and he stays healthy), I could see them pulling off an upset against any team in the NFC (or any in the AFC for that matter). Not saying it's likely, but once you hit the postseason all bets are off. Also not saying he's the entire reason their team is where it is right now, Alf and now Garcon and the defense starting to rebound all helped. But QB is always a huge piece. I'd say all the same about Andrew Luck and the Colts (and I pray to the football gods that when Brady retires we only suffer one awful year before finding a QB as talented as Luck to take us back to playoff contention).
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  10. #1225
    Elder Member jesse_custer's Avatar
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    Just to clarify, I don't think RG3 is overhyped, because "hype" has to do with entertainment and enjoyment, and RG3 is very, very entertaining. He's an electric guy all around. Washington fans should be excited. However, they shouldn't overrate RG3's ability, and they shouldn't underrate the contributions of the Shanahans and Morris.

    I think Jon Gruden has done the best commentary on the Redskins by far. He actually gives credit to their defense. He doesn't miss anything. That's the kind of commentary I expect from everyone.

  11. #1226
    14 Time Rita's Champion SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    Just to clarify, I don't think RG3 is overhyped, because "hype" has to do with entertainment and enjoyment, and RG3 is very, very entertaining. He's an electric guy all around. Washington fans should be excited. However, they shouldn't overrate RG3's ability, and they shouldn't underrate the contributions of the Shanahans and Morris.

    I think Jon Gruden has done the best commentary on the Redskins by far. He actually gives credit to their defense. He doesn't miss anything. That's the kind of commentary I expect from everyone.
    RGIII has issues as I posted earlier...Simms himself brought up in a game what he has to work on mechanics wise. Plus he can't continue in this system forever. His body won't allow it. The knee sprain is like fate tell Shanahan ...this kid needs to work an entire off season with a QB coach to grow used to a West coast system.
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  12. #1227
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    I think Jon Gruden has done the best commentary on the Redskins by far. He actually gives credit to their defense. He doesn't miss anything. That's the kind of commentary I expect from everyone.
    Then you've got pretty low expectations, because the Redskins defense hasn't exactly been a bright spot. Their rush defense has been decent-to-good, but they're in the bottom 3rd of the NFL in most other major defensive categories. Their passing defense has been especially porous.

  13. #1228
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    Then you've got pretty low expectations, because the Redskins defense hasn't exactly been a bright spot. Their rush defense has been decent-to-good, but they're in the bottom 3rd of the NFL in most other major defensive categories. Their passing defense has been especially porous.
    You should've watched the Monday Night game between the Redskins and Giants. Gruden predicted how the Redskins defense would give Eli Manning problems at the line of scrimmage with their unpredictable sets, and his predictions came true. His analysis of the Redskins offense was focused on the schemes while giving credit to the talent of RG3 and Morris. Gruden is the perfect example of a commentator who takes account of everything going on during the game on both sides of the ball.
    Last edited by jesse_custer; 12-11-2012 at 12:28 PM.

  14. #1229
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    You should've watched the Monday Night game between the Redskins and Giants. Gruden predicted how the Redskins defense would give Eli Manning problems at the line of scrimmage with their unpredictable sets, and his predictions came true. His analysis of the Redskins offense was focused on the schemes while giving credit to the talent of RG3 and Morris. Gruden is the perfect example of a commentator who takes account of everything going on during the game on both sides of the ball.
    I agree...but the unwashed masses don't want to hear about "defensive schemes", they want big throws, offense, and lots of points
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  15. #1230
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    You should've watched the Monday Night game between the Redskins and Giants. Gruden predicted how the Redskins defense would give Eli Manning problems at the line of scrimmage with their unpredictable sets, and his predictions came true. His analysis of the Redskins offense was focused on the schemes while giving credit to the talent of RG3 and Morris. Gruden is the perfect example of a commentator who takes account of everything going on during the game on both sides of the ball.
    I did watch the Giants/Redskins game, just like I've watched every Redskins game this season and the vast majority of the Redskins games for the past couple of decades since moving to DC.

    The Skins played their best defensive game (by far) all season agains the Giants. But that was one game. Their defense overall hasn't performed anywhere close to that level for the majority of the season.

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