Ultimately Off-Topic VII: The Miles Frontier

[Sinx]

Why don't we have a thread for Ultimate Spidey #17 yet?

spoilers:

the dude with the beard in the back of the SHIELD truck along with Jefferson looks an awful lot like Eddie Brock. Maybe this is "Venom's Connection to Jefferson" that was mentioned in the solicits of February's issue... Although probably not :P

end of spoilers

Idk man but the artist for it really did an excellent job. I liked him better than Pichelli and Marquez.

[Chaos_Alfa]

Idk man but the artist for it really did an excellent job. I liked him better than Pichelli and Marquez.

I don't.

I didn't like how he drew the top of Spider-Woman's costume. You could see the skin of her forehead, which you aren't suppose to be able to see. It looked weird.

[sage6paths]

I don't.

I didn't like how he drew the top of Spider-Woman's costume. You could see the skin of her forehead, which you aren't suppose to be able to see. It looked weird.

Also the hydra symbol on the warmachine knees. on some of them. lol

[Balfro]

I finally got my hands on a copy of Superman: Earth One vol 2...

WOW this was such a good book! It was way better than the first one, and the first one was amazing! I seriously can't wait for the next book!

[Robbie_Jee]

UC: Hawkeye #1 going for free on Comixology.

I finally got my hands on a copy of Superman: Earth One vol 2...

WOW this was such a good book! It was way better than the first one, and the first one was amazing! I seriously can't wait for the next book!

Agreed. The Earth One line is everything I wanted it to be. I had really high expectations for these prestigious origins stories of DC's most iconic heroes and yet they've blown me away on practically every page. Can't wait for WW: Earth One and Batman: Earth One vol.2 next year! I posted my thoughts on Superman: Earth One vol.2 a page or two back. How do your views compare to mine? What did you think about Superman letting the shooting happen in that country towards the end of the book?

[Balfro]

I always liked thier Origin of Symmetry album.


Hand on heart, I can tell you that it is a LOT better than the film. The season finalle is particularly powerful and ends the... er.. 'franchise'.. very nicely.


Drz, it's been over a year. Unblock me already.

I just read Superman: Earth One vol.2 the other day and I loved it. It thought it was a lot better than the first, which I also liked.

A lot of people complained about the first Superman: Earth One and said that if felt too Ultimate and wasn't exactly the iconic homage they were looking for. But this book further explains Superman's character, in a nice round-about way, as if the first Superman: Earth One desperately needed this sequel. And once I understood who this character was, I felt sorry for him. The way he struggled to fit in, as everyone around him felt so alien. It was superb. I never understood why Clark Kent was always portrayed so differently to Superman in the old Superman: The Movie, among other stories; Superman being confident and charming, and Clark being a clumsy fool.. it always felt very jarring and unrealistic to me. But Earth One vol.2 set everything straight. And for that, it is the greatest Superman story I've ever come across. I get Superman now. Suddenly, thanks to DC finally not being scared of character development, they were able to create a much more realised take on what was once one of DC's most boring characters.

Ultimate Marvel and their characters seem like a more realised version of their mainstream counterparts. Cap is an arrogant dickhead in 616 too, but IMO even more so than Ultimate Cap, and in a more annoying and deluded way. Also, 616 Wolverine, just like Ultimate Wolverine, is a murderous psychopath. The only difference is that 616 Wolverine actually thinks it's OK what he's doing and that it's the right thing to do, like when he wants to cut up his friends and teammates in AVX, which of course makes him even more dangerous because his values are that distorted. Ultimate Marvel is simply more aware of its characters. DC's Earth One range shares this similarity. But this is the only similarity they share. The Earth One range is a more realised take on it's characters. DC have never been known for much actual character development, as they tend to stay within the confines of rather dated superhero traditions. And as a result, their characters come across as very wooden. IMO, DC sticking to what's iconic and traditional, their desperation to cling onto the past and not move forward, is what has stagnated their entire creative development. But the Earth One line is something very different to what DC are used to doing. It's a line of comics that build and grow their most iconic characters from scratch, and slowly build them towards their iconic status. And they've had to be more 'aware' of their characters than ever to pull it off.

When I first opened the book, I was suddenly struck with a fear that this was going to be way too much like Ultimate Spiderman, as Clark was shown at work at the Daily Planet. But I was pleasenly surprised how different it actually was to the Bugle. Lois Lane was fantastic. I know that in the TV series, Lois finds out that Clark is Superman, WAY before the audience realise she knows, but she keeps it a secret, and when Clark tells her and pulls off his glasses, she says that she's known for years. In Superman: EO vol.2, she catches him crushing a stapler in his hand at work. I loved that. But I expect we won't know about her knowing for a long time yet, possibly in like ten years time (realtime), once the Earth One range has developed enough.

Man, the Earth One line is everything DC should be. I'm very thankful of it's existence.

I really like the character portrayals in this book. Parasite provided some excellent Superman action which was very satisfying. The book was also a lot better paced than the first one, and every scene fitted together very nicely.

One thing that I'm not sure I liked in the book though was when Superman let the warfare and the murder carry on in the that over-run country he went to, when instead I think he should have taken away every single gun there. Not agree and say 'Yeah, I suppose guns should exist because they get things done. Now they're going to kill you, old man.' It kind of spoilt the ending for me a little bit. Superman just let the killing continue. Bit of shame we got that, considering the high quality of the rest of the book.

I agree with most of what you say here. However with the ending I thought Clark did exactly the right thing. The whole plot throughout the book was that Superman can't be controlled and he shouldn't have the right to just cross borders and take everything into his own hands. He basically has to let other countries fend for themselves. He may have given them a nudge but it was a nudge in the right direction. Taking away all the guns or killing the general or what have you would be too much involvement. Besides, Earth One Clark isn't all boy-scout like mainstream Clark. This Clark is friends with a hooker and fantasizes about killing those who have done him wrong. What he did at the end showed great restraint on his part but he still did the right thing. Mainstream Clark would have taken all their guns away and forced them to shake hands before flying off with a bright rainbow in the distance...

Sinx/Balfro, how did you two like Superman: Earth One volume two? I found it superior to the 2nd volume, but at the end of the day some of the clichés we're abit bleh, like really hamfisted into this graphic novel and sadly my biggest excitment was the build up for volume 3.

It was way better than volume one, which was also very good. I loved the end where spoilers:

Lex Squared appeared

end of spoilers.

[Sinx]

I don't.

I didn't like how he drew the top of Spider-Woman's costume. You could see the skin of her forehead, which you aren't suppose to be able to see. It looked weird.

Really? I liked that. It made the costume more realistic. I didn't see any Hydra symbols on any knees either. O_o

[sage6paths]

Really? I liked that. It made the costume more realistic. I didn't see any Hydra symbols on any knees either. O_o

[Wolverine12]

American Horror Story was awesome tonight! Also Key and Peele was hilarious.

[Drz]

I don't think Batman is 'pussified.' I like my Batman with a little heart.

You keep using this argument, so here's a question: What books do you have read where Batman lacks a heart?

@Balfro: Aw hell naw, now you mentioned the whore! Also what you described isn't the mainstream Superman, more like the post-WW2 Superman. ;) You should read Action Comics, it's still far better than what JMS is throwing. Especially with the villains.



If i was to rate volume 2 of Earth One Superman, it's probably a strong 7, while volume 1 is a 6.5 or so.

[MarvelMaster616]

Happy Thanksgiving everybody! This was a great week for comics for everyone not named Dan Slott. I hope everyone has a great time with whatever they have planned. Then tomorrow, the real holiday season officially kicks in!

[Robbie_Jee]

I agree with most of what you say here. However with the ending I thought Clark did exactly the right thing. The whole plot throughout the book was that Superman can't be controlled and he shouldn't have the right to just cross borders and take everything into his own hands.

Thanks. I personally didn't see that at all in the book, really. Nothing about Superman being controlled or not. I don't remember much focus on any philosophical interpretation of control. For me the story was about his relation to mankind, how everyone was so alien to him, and then how he felt so vulnerable after losing his powers.

He basically has to let other countries fend for themselves.

Why does he have to let bad things happen, like war and bloodshed? I understand how you might like how different he is, but I struggle to see how he did the right thing by letting the violence and misery continue in that country. What's even worse, is he agreed with the efficency of firearms. Firearms aren't efficient. All they do is kill people. Superman decided to let a country destroy itself over depravity and scarcity.. he let them fight over their land, thus ignoring the fact that millions more will continue to get gunned down, as more and more military forces continue to try and conquer the land for profit and power.

Also, if he was to let it fend for itself, he wouldn't have gotten involved at all. He had no idea what he was dealing with, nor of the consequences that could come about by doing what he did. What if the rebels overthrew the government and from then on the entire country was total anarchy? It was like watching a teenager with super powers, doing what he thinks is correct and honourable, even though he has no clue how distorted his understanding is. It just seemed a bit dumb of him to advocate the actions he carried out.

This was a real big shame, I think, considering the excellent quality of the rest if the book.

He may have given them a nudge but it was a nudge in the right direction. Taking away all the guns or killing the general or what have you would be too much involvement.

I don't see what would be the problem in taking away all of the firearms. It would have saved millions of potential lives. If I were him, I'd take away every device that's primary purpose is to kill, like all firearms and WMDs, and get them the fuck away from earth as fast as possible. Forgive me but, how is letting war and mass murder continue, a nudge in the right direction? Superman has the power to save countless lives. If you ask me, that takes precedents over all other decisions. And therefore he has a responsiblity to stop millions of people from being slaughtered. It's simply Power and Responsibility. Save millions of lives, no matter what it takes.

Besides, Earth One Clark isn't all boy-scout like mainstream Clark. This Clark is friends with a hooker and fantasizes about killing those who have done him wrong. What he did at the end showed great restraint on his part but he still did the right thing. Mainstream Clark would have taken all their guns away and forced them to shake hands before flying off with a bright rainbow in the distance...

Him being friends with a hooker is something I believe only ignorant people would see as a bad thing. It's probably something she needs to do to sustain herself with food, water and shelter. When those necessities are in decline, a human will do whatever it takes to sustain them, or otherwise they'll die. I think is resonated well with how I think Superman should be portrayed.

Do you think Superman - how he's normally portrayed - is likely to look down upon a desperate hooker? What an ignorant bastard. :)

What you said mainstream Clark would have done, is exactly what I think Superman should do. The Earth One line isn't different for the sake of being different. It's stripping the characters down to before they had their iconic status. It's building them up to their iconic status.. like DC should do with their origin stories. Superman is for once, a believable character who is still flawed, and still isn't quite the hero he'll inevitably be.

I think the writer, Straczynski was trying to make a more realistic approach to politics. When really is came across as less. It was a very distorted, fairytale idea of politics and warfare. An acceptance that war happens and is 'the way of life', rationalising with what he percieves as normal, accepting it, rather than writing Superman doing the correct and logical thing and preventing countless deaths.

Thanks for your thoughts, Balfro.

[Balfro]

Thanks. I personally didn't see that at all in the book, really. Nothing about Superman being controlled or not. I don't remember much focus on any philosophical interpretation of control. For me the story was about his relation to mankind, how everyone was so alien to him, and then how he felt so vulnerable after losing his powers.

The side story during the entire book deals with the US Government/Military trying to find a way to take Superman down if they ever need to and news reports and late night talk shows examining how Superman can't possibly just be doing his heroics for the sake of being good and that he has no right to cross the border of other countries to interfere.

Why does he have to let bad things happen, like war and bloodshed? I understand how you might like how different he is, but I struggle to see how he did the right thing by letting the violence and misery continue in that country. What's even worse, is he agreed with the efficency of firearms. Firearms aren't efficient. All they do is kill people. Superman decided to let a country destroy itself over depravity and scarcity.. he let them fight over their land, thus ignoring the fact that millions more will continue to get gunned down, as more and more military forces continue to try and conquer the land for profit and power.

It's not Superman's place to just end the poverty or war of a country that he has no business being involved in. He may have helped the poverty-strucken people take back their country but he didn't do it for them. It's the old saying about giving a man a fish vs. teaching a man to fish.

Also, if he was to let it fend for itself, he wouldn't have gotten involved at all. He had no idea what he was dealing with, nor of the consequences that could come about by doing what he did. What if the rebels overthrew the government and from then on the entire country was total anarchy? It was like watching a teenager with super powers, doing what he thinks is correct and honourable, even though he has no clue how distorted his understanding is. It just seemed a bit dumb of him to advocate the actions he carried out.

And that's exactly the point. Just because Superman is Superman that doesn't mean what he thinks is the right thing to do is actually the right thing to do. He simply disliked the general for embarassing him and being condescending to him so he did the same thing to him in return, while at the same time helping the country in a way he thought wasn't going against international treaty or whatever. Keep in mind the characters in Earth One are brand new at this super hero gig. Superman makes decisions that are sort of grey and Batman falls off of ledges while trying to run down a perp... They're not perfect, and that's what makes them so awesome.

This was a real big shame, I think, considering the excellent quality of the rest if the book.

I don't see what would be the problem in taking away all of the firearms. It would have saved millions of potential lives. If I were him, I'd take away every device that's primary purpose is to kill, like all firearms and WMDs, and get them the fuck away from earth as fast as possible. Forgive me but, how is letting war and mass murder continue, a nudge in the right direction? Superman has the power to save countless lives. If you ask me, that takes precedents over all other decisions. And therefore he has a responsiblity to stop millions of people from being slaughtered. It's simply Power and Responsibility. Save millions of lives, no matter what it takes.

Ah, but you also need to think about what saving all those lives could result in. Overpopulation, which leads to starvation, which leads to death and misery. There's a general rule when it comes to human beings and war: It sucks, but it's a good way to keep the population of the planet in check...

[Jer]

I finally got my hands on a copy of Superman: Earth One vol 2...

WOW this was such a good book! It was way better than the first one, and the first one was amazing! I seriously can't wait for the next book!

It was a good book. I can't wait for the next one.

Superman loses his virginity .... FINALLY!

And Happy Thanksgiving everybody. Just had to get that out there.

[RockyBanks]

Yesterday was busy as hell for me. As usual, I didn't make it to my LCS, but I did get my hands on a digital comic that I'd never read before, and...

It Made My Wednesday.



The Incredible Hulk #1
(FREE at Marvel Digital Comics Unlimited)

The Bottom Line:

At last, Bruce Banner and the Hulk have been separated. The Hulk is now living a peaceful existence underground with the Moloids, but all of that is shattered when a government task force--with its robot army in tow, mind you--shows up to recruit the Hulk for their top secret mission: to kill Bruce Banner.

Favorite Panel:



Favorite Line:

"If I may speak freely, sir...his status is he's kicking our ass."

What Works:

The pencils. Silvestri's sketchy style takes some getting used to, but it's always gorgeous; his close-ups of the Hulk's face are especially striking.



What Doesn't Work:

I can't shake the feeling that the "shadowy high-tech government agency" thing has been done to death. Boring.