Ultimately Off-Topic VII: The Miles Frontier

[RockyBanks]

I want to read more books than I can afford, and Marvel NOW isn't helping any, lol...

[sage6paths]

Hilarious Fake Bane Outakes.

[Jer]

Hilarious Fake Bane Outakes.

hmmm interesting.

[MarvelMaster616]

November, 2012 Comic Sales Initial Report

Looks like Marvel NOW is off to a good start. #1 book, 8 of the top 10, and a commanding lead in unit share at 40% to 33%. There's a bit of a drop overall, but the industry is still up over 10% from last year! Everyone wins!!

The AvX hardcover ($75) is also a big hit, unsurprisingly, as the top superhero collected edition of the month. Walking Dead still reigns supreme, though. Volume 1 continues to live in the top 10 at #8, which is just absurd.

I'll be interested to see what things look like outside the top 10, and where the sales estimates fall.

As a life-long X-men fan, I couldn't help but smile when I saw All New X-men #1 at the top. I know Avengers and Spider-Man #700 will likely top it, but I like seeing the X-books dominate if only for a month. They were really shafted by Avengers vs. X-men. And bringing back the Original Five, including Jean Grey, can only make the books better. Bendis has been doing a great job on that title so far. If he can keep it up, I look forward to seeing how he tackles Uncanny X-men next year.

[Plawsky]

I highly doubt we'll see it for more than a mere month on the top sales. Die hard fans getting the collection, the collector's getting it and realizing how poorly the product is made alongside the cluster of a story, don't see it lasting long personally.

Very few collections stay on the list for more than a month, that's kind of how big releases work. But I don't think it'll be for the reasons you're saying, because the book itself was at the top of the charts for its entire duration. You'd think if people really hated it that much they would stop buying it after seven months, but that didn't happen. I don't know why, out of my whole post, you decided to single out that one bit of information, but I guess you just like any chance you can have to make fun of AvX, despite it being a sales juggernaut and overall well received.

[Fizicks]

Hilarious Fake Bane Outakes.

4:43 stadium scene is genius!!

[Drz]

Very few collections stay on the list for more than a month, that's kind of how big releases work.

Poor man's argument. There are tons of Omnibuses, Oversized Hardcovers and Absolutes that will and easily have done much impressive reactions to the sales and i guess i could again mention the sales juggernauts that the OGNs out there are making these days.

but I guess you just like any chance you can have to make fun of AvX, despite it being a sales juggernaut and overall well received.

It's more fun pointing out how kind you always are towards Marvel. Do you still consider Ultimates #12 a well written comic?

More Collections talk!

Grant Morrison's Animal Man finally getting the Omnibus treatment! There is also a Golden Age Superman Omni coming, Jeph Loeb's Superman|Batman, Sandman and Jack Kirby's In the Days of the Mob receiving a collection! Nerd Heaven. <3 Watchmen is getting a deluxe edition, and all the Before the Watchmen books too.

[TheGreenGabbo]

I want to read more books than I can afford, and Marvel NOW isn't helping any, lol...

Dude I know the feeling. I'm so impulsive when it comes to buying comics. I can't control myself. The other day I went into my local shop just to have a look around and pass the time for a while and I ended up buying the first two volumes of Ultimate FF. And I'm still itching for more.

[Plawsky]

Poor man's argument. There are tons of Omnibuses, Oversized Hardcovers and Absolutes that will and easily have done much impressive reactions to the sales and i guess i could again mention the sales juggernauts that the OGNs out there are making these days.

I've never denied any of those things. I was only pointing out that Marvel had a $75 book in the top 10 GNs, just like I did with the Walking Dead Compendium last month. The reason I only mentioned Marvel in the post was because that's all there really was to talk about with the info we have so far. Yeah, Batman destroyed, as always; Snyder's Batman run is the biggest thing in years, in terms of an ongoing book. But that doesn't discount the fact that Marvel NOW is working.

Although, since you bring it up, lets look at the DC Absolutes. Do you actually know about their sales numbers, or are you just guessing? Because they haven't fared nearly as well. The three that were released this year:

Dark Victory - #118
Sinestro Corps - #151
Final Crisis - #127

Yes, I know they cost $100 versus $75 for the AvX OHC. But they each sold around 1000, while AvX probably sold 4k+.

If you want to look even further, at all the expensive books, we can do that to. I checked the top 100 trades and GNs for this year, and there were a total of NINE books $75 or more in the top 100. Six were Marvel OHCs and Omnis, and three were IDW Artist Editions (two of Marvel books). The highest of any of those was #30, for the Born Again AE. AvX was #6. It is absolutely the highest selling of any high priced book this year. In fact, it's one of only four books over $25 in the top 10 all year, those being Fear Itself ($35), Watchmen ($40), Knightfall ($30), and Walking Dead ($60).

Again, this is not to say that AvX is better than any of those stories, or that Marvel is better than DC. But as far as sales go, Marvel objectively won this month, after a year of DC crushing them. I'm not sure why you're so determined to downplay the success of AvX, but you should probably do even a minimal amount of research first. So I'll point you again to the beginning of your post:

There are tons of Omnibuses, Oversized Hardcovers and Absolutes that will and easily have done much impressive reactions to the sales

Do you want to give some examples?

[Drz]

Dark Victory - #118
Sinestro Corps - #151
Final Crisis - #127
Yes, I know they cost $100 versus $75 for the AvX OHC. But they each sold around 1000, while AvX probably sold 4k+.

Granted however, all three examples have had releases beforehand from Softcovers/Hardcovers and some even both.

Again, this is not to say that AvX is better than any of those stories, or that Marvel is better than DC. But as far as sales go, Marvel objectively won this month, after a year of DC crushing them. I'm not sure why you're so determined to downplay the success of AvX, but you should probably do even a minimal amount of research first. So I'll point you again to the beginning of your post:

Do you want to give some examples?

Is your argument regarding the single November month? Because if so, i was debating Big Releases in general from Mark Millar's Civil War to Morrison's New X-Men to the constant Absolute Sandmans and the obvious Walking Dead Compediums to Holy Terror, Earth One line and so forward.

I mean obviously Avengers vs. X-Men is #1 at the moment, but my whole point was that it's not going to last longer, while big hardcovers like Civil War are still going strong. I mean, we're both using the Amazon best seller site here, right?

PS. Just made a 400$ order on Amazon, thank god Amazon doesn't charge until they ship, this way i can ensure the best discounts stay with me unles si find someonewhere else better deals.

[RockyBanks]

As a life-long X-men fan, I couldn't help but smile when I saw All New X-men #1 at the top. I know Avengers and Spider-Man #700 will likely top it, but I like seeing the X-books dominate if only for a month. They were really shafted by Avengers vs. X-men. And bringing back the Original Five, including Jean Grey, can only make the books better. Bendis has been doing a great job on that title so far. If he can keep it up, I look forward to seeing how he tackles Uncanny X-men next year.

All-New X-Men has me salivating for Uncanny. I haven't enjoyed an X-book this much since Whedon's Astonishing.

Dude I know the feeling. I'm so impulsive when it comes to buying comics. I can't control myself. The other day I went into my local shop just to have a look around and pass the time for a while and I ended up buying the first two volumes of Ultimate FF. And I'm still itching for more.

I tend to feel the same way, and that feeling doesn't go away when you're broke.

[Plawsky]

Granted however, all three examples have had releases beforehand from Softcovers/Hardcovers and some even both.

True, but you're the one who brought up Absolutes. Like I said, I would love to see any examples of other $50+ books doing as well as the AvX hardcover. The only ones that I've seen are the Walking Dead Compendiums, because nothing can compete with Walking Dead (which has 16 books in the Amazon top 20 at the moment). I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just presenting the numbers I've found.

Is your argument regarding the single November month? Because if so, i was debating Big Releases in general from Mark Millar's Civil War to Morrison's New X-Men to the constant Absolute Sandmans and the obvious Walking Dead Compediums to Holy Terror, Earth One line and so forward.

I mean obviously Avengers vs. X-Men is #1 at the moment, but my whole point was that it's not going to last longer, while big hardcovers like Civil War are still going strong. I mean, we're both using the Amazon best seller site here, right?

The problem with using Amazon for this is that there's no way to quantify anything. Being on that list just means they're selling better right now. They don't show any numbers or historical data. The DM numbers we get from Diamond are the only thing we have to go on, and AvX performed far better than any other oversized expensive book for at least the past year. It's easy to assume that it will continue to be a solid seller because it was the biggest Marvel event since Civil War. I know you don't care for the event, but I don't see how that translates to your dismissal of its success. You don't like Loeb's Batman books either, but to deny their success would be foolish (Hush and TLH are currently in Amazon's top 20 superhero books).

[sage6paths]

well I got done with my first final. On to the next two finals then I can finally have my long deserved rest. Also who's idea was it to release the Hobbit on my finals weeks. lol

[Drz]

The problem with using Amazon for this is that there's no way to quantify anything. Being on that list just means they're selling better right now. They don't show any numbers or historical data. The DM numbers we get from Diamond are the only thing we have to go on

Meh, i'll take Amazon sales, Barnes & Noble, Forbidden Planet and New York best sellers over Diamond. I mean, book stores in general just sell graphic novels, it's the smaller collections (like the mass army of Walking Dead softcovers) that sell alongside Vertigo titles. + Of course Batman, Marvel (movies for the win) and so forward in book stores.

Here's the November sales by the way. Deadpool, Thor, X-Men, Iron Man lost *alot* of readers within a single issue, if Marvel was hoping to channel the success of 52 which they are acting like this is, it's not working at all. Thor is back to the same sales it's had with Fraction, but i can see more fans lasting, if the quality keeps up, because Thor God of Thunder is really good so far. Ah well i can expect a new relaunch for Captain America, Thor & Iron Man in less than a year with these movies coming up.

Anyhow here's Django Unchained comic cover by Frank Quitely:

[Plawsky]

Meh, i'll take Amazon sales, Barnes & Noble, Forbidden Planet and New York best sellers over Diamond. I mean, book stores in general just sell graphic novels, it's the smaller collections (like the mass army of Walking Dead softcovers) that sell alongside Vertigo titles. + Of course Batman, Marvel (movies for the win) and so forward in book stores.

I'm very aware of that. Walking Dead and Batman destroy everything when it comes to collected editions, followed by other Image and Vertigo stuff. It's not even close. The problem with using those as a longterm sales comparison is that there's no number next to them. Almost everything spends a month or two on the list and then falls off to make way for new titles. It's a select few titles (other than the aforementioned Batman and Walking Dead) that actually maintain spots for an extended period of time. And most of the Batman stuff that stays is old; DKR, Hush, Long Halloween, Year One, Killing Joke, etc all stay on the list higher and longer than Snyder or Morrison's runs.

That's part of the problem with newer stuff from DC and Marvel - they don't focus on the longterm shelf life of their graphic novels. I can't think of anything from the past few years that will stand out as a "must read" trade. Morrison's Batman is awesome, but it's not the kind of standalone, go to book that DKR or Year One or Long Halloween is. People don't want you to tell them "pick up Batman and Son, then Black Glove, Resurrection, RIP, Batman and Robin 1-3, then Return, then Inc 1, then Inc 1-2." Of all those, Batman and Robin would be the best to add to the list of best sellers classics, but it's still 3 volumes; and even still, it's only part of a bigger story.

That's why Marvel's events do so well - you can, for the most part, read them on their own. Civil War, Secret Invasion, House of M, etc all work as one book. And now, Avengers vs X-Men will go alongside those.

But I'm still curious what these "tons of Omnibuses, Oversized Hardcovers and Absolutes that will and easily have done much impressive reactions to the sales" are, because I have yet to see any examples of this.

Here's the November sales by the way. Deadpool, Thor, X-Men, Iron Man lost *alot* of readers within a single issue, if Marvel was hoping to channel the success of 52 which they are acting like this is, it's not working at all. Thor is back to the same sales it's had with Fraction, but i can see more fans lasting, if the quality keeps up, because Thor God of Thunder is really good so far. Ah well i can expect a new relaunch for Captain America, Thor & Iron Man in less than a year with these movies coming up.

Yeah, the second issue drop was bigger on some books than I was expecting. But despite the huge drops (Marvel's #1s always have big drops):

All New X-Men is higher than all but two DC books (there were 6 DC books higher than ANXM on their 2nd issue)
Uncanny Avengers is beaten only by Batman (there were 4 DC #2s higher)
Iron Man, Deadpool, and Thor is still selling more than double the issues they were in September
X-Men: Legacy is up by about 50% from September

It might not be as big of a success as the New 52 was, but it also wasn't nearly as big of a marketing push. It's certainly still a big win for Marvel, though.