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  1. #2056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balfro View Post
    The side story during the entire book deals with the US Government/Military trying to find a way to take Superman down if they ever need to and news reports and late night talk shows examining how Superman can't possibly just be doing his heroics for the sake of being good and that he has no right to cross the border of other countries to interfere.
    Ok, So you mean to say that his response to this is to do as he is told, not get involved, and let the death toll rise?

    It's not Superman's place to just end the poverty or war of a country that he has no business being involved in.
    So he should only help America? He doesn't belong to any nationality. Rather than pledge an alliegence to just one nation, he should pledge his alliegence to the protection and the survival of innocents all across the globe. As a hero of the people of earth, he should do whatever it takes to ensure that people have access to the necesseties of life, the resources of the world, instead of letting armies take over and control everything, and dry up the resources. If he's not allowed to get involved, then by that logic, he shouldn't rescue anyone, right?

    I strongly disgree with that logic. I think if people are being killed, regardless of the country, he should stop it from happening.

    He may have helped the poverty-strucken people take back their country but he didn't do it for them. It's the old saying about giving a man a fish vs. teaching a man to fish.
    I'm sorry but I don't really understand any of this. He's supposed to selflessly save lives. It has nothing to do with who he's doing it for. There shouldn't be any bias agenda distorting this very simple and very logical decision. Save the people. That's what's important.

    As for that saying, I get what it means, but how did Superman teach anything useful or moral, or set a good example in any way? I don't think he taught the nation anything.

    And that's exactly the point. Just because Superman is Superman that doesn't mean what he thinks is the right thing to do is actually the right thing to do. He simply disliked the general for embarassing him and being condescending to him so he did the same thing to him in return, while at the same time helping the country in a way he thought wasn't going against international treaty or whatever.
    I'm not expecting Superman to kill or anything. In fact, It'd be a more accurate representation of a good, moral hero if he didn't kill.

    As for not going against treaty or whatever, what treaty would that be? Are you saying that if there's a legislation in place saying he can't get involved in a war, he should abide by that, regardless of how many people die from war?

    Please, if there's an overlaying complexity to this very simple reasoning of morale and saving people who need to be saved, what is it? What is it that's more important that sustaining the needs of the people and making sure no one is killed?

    Keep in mind the characters in Earth One are brand new at this super hero gig. Superman makes decisions that are sort of grey and Batman falls off of ledges while trying to run down a perp... They're not perfect, and that's what makes them so awesome.
    I get that. But they're different for the sake of realism. Not just because it's different. Batman falls off ledges because he's not a particularly good Batman yet. He's not even much of a detective yet, let alone the world's greatest detective. So he's not quite the iconic symbol he'll inevitably be.

    And I see that in Superman as well. I think by the time their respective Earth One trilogies have ended, they will then indeed be the iconic status that everyone konws them for. And I applaud DC for finally having the balls to try and build their heroes up to that status, slowly, whilst making them all the more relatable and convincing. So I can see why and how Superman may have made the bad decision to let the killing continue. But it came across as though he was an idiot. Readers tend to want to see characters learn something and come out of their struggles as a better man by the time the story comes to a close. Not state how he hasn't learnt the right thing to do. It's as though he's accepted the deaths of millions, and thus let millions more die, simply because that's what happens, that's normality, that's real life. 'I should just ignore it because it hasn't got anything to do with me. Even if I can save millions of lives, it's not my responsibility.' I wouldn't say he was ignorant, but it's still not how I think a book should've ended. It was like Superman was turning into a selfish villain who 'got his own back' against someone who embarrased him. That's what's called an emotional response. Emotions tend to cloud logic, and then we create a human agenda in our minds, which is generated by a personal desire. The ending of the book, with Superman letting the warfare continue, was the perfect example of personal feelings distorting a set of values and preventing a good, logical decision to end suffering. Instead, he retaliated, with authoritarian force, and then left the country to fuck itself up.

    Ah, but you also need to think about what saving all those lives could result in. Overpopulation, which leads to starvation, which leads to death and misery. There's a general rule when it comes to human beings and war: It sucks, but it's a good way to keep the population of the planet in check...
    Overpopulation? You really don't think they have enough land and good weather to sustain the needs of the people there? America wastes more food that it consumes. And yet look at the vast amount of land you don't use and feel doesn't need to be harnessed by growing crops on it or setting up solar panels up down your massive deserts. You guys ignore all that potential energy and resources, regardless of the amount of it you consume. If the popluation of the people was so difficult to sustain why not adopt better managment of your land? You don't seem to have much of a problem sustaining your consumerism, America, so I don't see why anyone else would have a problem. Besides, killing people would only acheive the same results as not feeding them. Think about this for long enough, and you'll realise that it all comes down to profit, rather than the managment of resources. Superman is just letting the cycle of war and death continue.

    Balfro, listen to what you're saying. You're trying to justify a good reason for millions of innocents dying. You're trying to argue that Superman is right to let millions of innocents get gunned down.

  2. #2057
    Mr. Papaya Balfro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_Jee View Post
    Balfro, listen to what you're saying. You're trying to justify a good reason for millions of innocents dying. You're trying to argue that Superman is right to let millions of innocents get gunned down.
    The militia are hardly innocent. Also, Superman didn't have Uncle Ben's "with great power comes great responsibility", instead he had his father telling hime that "there's some things you simply can't do and you have to live with that" as well as the media debating whether or not Superman has the right to interfere with foreign nations. Clark understands that he overstepped his bounds when the general told him to get lost, that's why he turned and left initially.

    Listen, just because he has the power to end world poverty that doesn't mean he HAS to. He wants to, obviously, but he grew up learning that he has to stay hidden and blend in and not stand out. That was the central theme of this entire book. He would love nothing more than to kill all evil and bullies and help those in need, as shown in his fantasy about heat-visioning the general, but he's also learned all his life to follow orders and do what others tell him to do. In the end he found a way stick it to the general and not step on the toes of anyone who argues that he shouldn't get involved with foreign nations because all he did was open a door for them, not fight their battle for them.


    I loved the side story about him and his cat :) So heart-warming.
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  3. #2058
    Back to formula?! Sinx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sage6paths View Post
    Well I'll be. There it is. =p Yea that's a pretty weird thing to do considering they weren't like that on any other knees.
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  4. #2059
    Mr. Papaya Balfro's Avatar
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    So in DC, what earth designation is the new 52? Is "Earth 2" really Earth-2? Is "Earth One" really Earth-1? New 52 must be Earth-3, then, no?
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  5. #2060
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balfro View Post
    The militia are hardly innocent. Also, Superman didn't have Uncle Ben's "with great power comes great responsibility", instead he had his father telling hime that "there's some things you simply can't do and you have to live with that" as well as the media debating whether or not Superman has the right to interfere with foreign nations. Clark understands that he overstepped his bounds when the general told him to get lost, that's why he turned and left initially.

    Listen, just because he has the power to end world poverty that doesn't mean he HAS to. He wants to, obviously, but he grew up learning that he has to stay hidden and blend in and not stand out. That was the central theme of this entire book. He would love nothing more than to kill all evil and bullies and help those in need, as shown in his fantasy about heat-visioning the general, but he's also learned all his life to follow orders and do what others tell him to do. In the end he found a way stick it to the general and not step on the toes of anyone who argues that he shouldn't get involved with foreign nations because all he did was open a door for them, not fight their battle for them.


    I loved the side story about him and his cat :) So heart-warming.
    The militia may not be totally innocent, but I can guarantee that their motives are justified when there's a scarcity of resources, and therefore must kill others in order to protect thier families. When there's a shortage of food and water, people will fight to the death and do what ever it takes to sustain their bodily needs, and the needs of their loves one's. Militia are very often just civilians with firearms.

    Superman helped the militia, so I think they must have been innocent in his eyes, regardless of whether they were or not. I believe he helped the rebels overthrow a politician. I think everyone with a gun is classed as militia.

    One hurdle I'm struggling to get over is 'Why?' he must 'Do as he's told?' When I don't understand something, I ask a question. Whereas Superman seems to have either, 1. Based his logic on assumption.. Or, 2. Acknowledged something that I didn't.
    But either way, there are circumstances to taking out political leaders. After siding with the rebels, it's very possible that could lead to them overthrowing all law and control, thus ensuing nation-wide anarchy as a result.

    Going back to him 'doing as he's told', I still can't get over why he can't save people in other countries, but can save people in America. If he has the power to save millions of lives, I can't see why he shouldn't, regardless of whom he's sided with. I honestly can't see why he shouldn't take away every weapon and get them far away from earth.

    It's a bit like being told your country is in a recession, without being told why, or how you're in a recession. It's like he's accepted the death of millions, simply because it's normality.

    It's like someone telling you that the Christian God created the earth, accepting it, and refusing to question it because you've been told to accept something you don't fully understand or acknowledge, regardless of how much it doesn't make sense. It's like Superman is confused about what to do, which is understandable considering how he's practically being told to ignore what he believes is the right thing to do, without any reason other than, politicians won't like it. It's like he's being told to ignore the cognitive evaluations of his mind, and just accept that death just.. happens.

    I hope he overcomes this confusion in vol.3. Then, he can save everyone who needs saving. Rather than just save the people of one country.

    Is he restricted to only helping America? I'm not sure.

    I agree, that side story about his cat was very touching. It's something I related to and felt great empathy for. I'm very much a cat lover. I much prefer them to dogs. It still feels weird not having my cat around. She's been dead for nearly ten years now. We buried her in my mums back garden and planted a tree on top. In a way, that tree to me is sort of like how the moon is to Clark. Whenever I go to my mums, I stand our in the garden smokin a fag or a joint and I just watch the tree, see how big it's growing and how strong it's getting.
    Last edited by Robbie_Jee; 11-23-2012 at 09:24 AM.

  6. #2061
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    4G!!!

    It's finally here! We've got fibreoptic broadband for the home which was released last year and now we've got 4G for outside without the need of broadband!

    Presented by Kevin Bacon. He even mentions Ken Barlow from Coronation Street, a soap on ITV. How weird is that?!! Thanks Kev!



    I don't know why, but there's something really exciting about seeing Hollywood actors in a British pub.
    Last edited by Robbie_Jee; 11-23-2012 at 12:44 PM.

  7. #2062
    Back to formula?! Sinx's Avatar
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    I just bought a brand new 250 GB PS3 with Infamous 1 and 2 and Uncharted 1 and 2 off of Amazon for $120. I'm naughty.
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  8. #2063
    Mr. Papaya Balfro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinx View Post
    I just bought a brand new 250 GB PS3 with Infamous 1 and 2 and Uncharted 1 and 2 off of Amazon for $120. I'm naughty.
    Wow, what a deal!
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  9. #2064
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    Speaking about Superman. What did you guys think about the Superman trailer that came out a couple months ago?

    Last edited by sage6paths; 11-23-2012 at 01:01 PM.

  10. #2065
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    "Episodes 5&6" - Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome

  11. #2066
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    @sage6paths
    :O wow. I've never seen that Man of Steel trailer before. Have you got a better video cuz that one was really blurry?
    Once I've finished the first season of Death Note I'll get right on Episode 3 of Blood & Chrome and tell you what I think.

  12. #2067
    of Earth-1610 RockyBanks's Avatar
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    Did some Black Friday shopping, stopped by the comic shop, read ASM 698, crapped my pants.

  13. #2068
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinx View Post
    I just bought a brand new 250 GB PS3 with Infamous 1 and 2 and Uncharted 1 and 2 off of Amazon for $120. I'm naughty.
    I missed out both the Sly cooper trilogy and God of War collection lightning deals. :( Purchased like 15-20 Blu-ray movies ranging from 3-7$ dollars per.
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  14. #2069
    Mr. Papaya Balfro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyBanks View Post
    Did some Black Friday shopping, stopped by the comic shop, read ASM 698, crapped my pants.
    I know, right?!? I only started reading Amazing Spidey this issue because of the big cancellation soon, and Superior looks pretty interesting. So far I'm impressed.
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  15. #2070
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balfro View Post
    I know, right?!? I only started reading Amazing Spidey this issue because of the big cancellation soon, and Superior looks pretty interesting. So far I'm impressed.
    Will you ever give Captain America series the chance he deserves?:(
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