Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25
  1. #1
    Mild-Mannered Reporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    28,908

    Default The Many Kisses of Superman and Wonder Woman

    With "Justice League" #12 relationship-changing kiss on everyone's minds, CBR's Brian Cronin leads us on a look back at the history of Superman and Wonder Woman's previous in-continuity romantic embraces.


    Full article here.

  2. #2

    Default

    I know of at least one other story by Kanigher that preceded Superman's dalliance with the (faux) mod Wonder Woman, which this article fails to mention.* And then there's that big tabloid out of continuity Superman/Wonder Woman team-up--although there they are both dominant heroes locked in a philosophical battle.

    [*edit: to be fair, the story I'm thinking of features Superman in only one panel as he takes Diana Prince out on a date, in Wonder Woman 130, from 1962.]

    This article shies away from talking about what this all means for the Wonder Woman character, as well as Superman. It seems to me that the reason for Wonder Woman NOT falling into Superman's arms is more than editorial proprietorship. Marston's WW could have a relationship with Supes, but it would be a relationship of equals--or even with WW in the superior position (and Superman submitting to bondage as part of their courtship). What I see too often whenever WW dances with Superman is that she becomes the male fantasy of a woman--someone super-sexy who exists merely to satisfy the needs of a superior male figure (and vicariously the need of frustrated male readers).

    Readers might argue that pairing her with Superman will help her sales. But at what cost? Wonder Woman is already a pale imitation of the strong feminist she used to be. Putting her under Superman's umbrella lessens her even more.

    The article talks about the classic Marvel shared universe, but one thing Stan didn't do is violate the nature of his characters just to throw them all together for the sake of sales. His Hulk had a major falling out with The Avengers and Spider-Man turned down membership in that group. The Fantastic Four, Avengers, and X-Men could have all joined into one big super-group and that might have resulted in a sales boost. But the creative direction of each group was respected.

    It would probably boost Superman's sales if he came under Batman's umbrella. But he doesn't. We don't see Batman grabbing hold of Superman and mashing him with a big sloppy bat kiss for the sake of sales. But maybe if things get worse for Superman's sales that's exactly what we will see.
    Last edited by An Ear In The Fireplace; 08-29-2012 at 12:34 PM.

  3. #3

    Default

    Cool article. Thanks for all that hard work CBR! I saw stuff I never saw before. I will say though just that story where he clearly wants to be with her and turns her down for a dead Lois (whose face he can't even remember) I always thought a silly story. Nothing about that was believable other than Superman has psychological issues. It's kinda disturbing in a way. I wonder why they bothered with such a dumb story. Kingdom Come is more human and credible story about love and change.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Leocomix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,606

    Default

    DC, we need a collection of those stories. Those early ones, especially, as they seem so much more fun than the later ones.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kylesgirl View Post
    I will say though just that story where he clearly wants to be with her and turns her down for a dead Lois (whose face he can't even remember) I always thought a silly story. Nothing about that was believable other than Superman has psychological issues. It's kinda disturbing in a way. I wonder why they bothered with such a dumb story. Kingdom Come is more human and credible story about love and change.
    I find it strange that so many people bring up this one story, because when I read it I just thought it was a throwaway story that didn't really matter in the end. But I had no trouble understanding Superman in that story. We are all different and we all have psychological issues. And if you live long enough, you learn to accept that everyone has their own way of dealing with loss and love. Some people move on, some people don't. Some people aren't able to let this story go and they seem to take issue with it because it doesn't fit their own paradigm of how human beings should behave. Believe it or not there are some men who don't put their sexual needs before everything else--and this was a story about that sort of man. There are other Superman stories where he does move on and he does have other relationships. There's a Superman story for just about every perspective on how humans should behave--so why does this story get all the attention?

    It's also funny that Wonder Woman comes from an island where immortal women have lived without men for three thousand years. So in her experience I'm sure she knew many straight women who took other women as lovers, while other straight women couldn't do that because it was simply against their nature. I mean the whole concept of Paradise Islands invites questions about Amazon sexuality that can't be explored because 1) Wonder Woman is supposed to be a family friendly comic and 2) there are very few writers who are up to the task.

  6. #6
    Optic Blast, Optic Blast B. Kuwanger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    JEEEEAAAN
    Posts
    5,940

    Default

    In a perfect world we would have 6 more threads on this and an additional 4 for the possible MoS comic.

  7. #7

    Default

    Looking back on all these stories, it's clear that the idea has always been there. DC just hasn't had the right circumstances with which to get them together. I agree with the notion that this could not have happened before the New 52. Superman and Wonder Woman have been established as two characters who are very much alone in the world. Superman lost both his parents. Wonder Woman is essentially a pariah in her own home after the revelation about her father being Zeus. They're both a lot more distant from humanity and I think that makes them coming together feel more natural.

    That's not to say I think they have long-term potential. I honestly don't think they'll last long term. I only hope they last longer than Storm and Black Panther's marriage.
    Join me on the official website for X-men Supreme, home of Marvel Universe 1015. Want a fresh take on X-men? Click below to enter the official home of Marvel at it's most Supreme!

    X-men Supreme

  8. #8
    Sock-puppet-socker Kolymar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    405

    Default

    Re: Kingdom Come. IIRC, Wonder Woman kissed Superman goodbye right before she and her followers left for the final battle. It was a great kiss, full of passion as she was angry and disappointed with him and he was the passive recipient, stunned by it and the whole situation. Unlike the second where she had let go of her anger and he was very confident and satisfied with the new status quo and his work. The kiss itself was very sweet and tender.
    "Corruptus In Extremis"

    I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library. Jorge Luis Borges

    "Omne animal triste est post coitum"

  9. #9
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    4,254

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kylesgirl View Post
    Cool article. Thanks for all that hard work CBR! I saw stuff I never saw before. I will say though just that story where he clearly wants to be with her and turns her down for a dead Lois (whose face he can't even remember) I always thought a silly story. Nothing about that was believable other than Superman has psychological issues. It's kinda disturbing in a way. I wonder why they bothered with such a dumb story. Kingdom Come is more human and credible story about love and change.
    Personally, I found it 'understandable' - that, since they were in a mystic realm, there was always the chance that they would be able to make it back to where and when they had been taken from.

    Kingdom Come, however, involved the 'normal passage of time'.

  10. #10

    Default

    It would seem natural for like to love and marry like, but it doesn't always work out that way and where's the drama? You're essentially saying that Superman should just make his life easy and not pursue an impossible love. Romeo should find someone from his own class. Bella shouldn't be pining after an undead love. Cinderella should stay at home and find a nice working man.

  11. #11
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    4,254

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by An Ear In The Fireplace View Post
    Romeo should find someone from his own class.
    Romeo was an older guy who became infatuated with and seduced an early teen.


    Bella shouldn't be pining after an undead love.
    I'm sure many would say she shouldn't...besides, there were several other guys who were interested in her...

    Cinderella should stay at home and find a nice working man.
    Perhaps she would have done if any form of interaction other than with her step-mother and step-sisters was permitted for her. Heck, maybe a neighbour knew of someone who would be suitable but, knowing what Cinderella's family were like, decided against broaching the subject...

  12. #12
    Senior Member J. Robb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Oil Country
    Posts
    4,847

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by An Ear In The Fireplace View Post
    It would seem natural for like to love and marry like, but it doesn't always work out that way and where's the drama?
    That's exactly it- it's Superman and She-Superman, a pretty boring couple. Not to say that it can't make for a good story to see it played out and the ramifications dealt with, but it won't be a long term relationship. It's just too vanilla.

  13. #13
    Junior Member asiansupes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    299

    Default

    They could be a fun couple. It'd be fun to see Diana marveling (and not fully understanding) at Superman choosing to be Clark and just one of the guys. Likewise, Clark meeting her "family". Just because Superman and Wonder Woman are Superman and Wonder Woman, it doesn't mean they don't always feel secure that they are with each other. Clark could be hanging with his newfound bestie Bruce over a beer and be like "Wow, I can't believe I'm with her." Bruce could be like, "Man, I'm so jelly of you." It wouldn't be easy for Diana because Clark is so honest and forthright. I guess, what I', trying to say its they can see the each other, the way some fans feel, as being perfect, but really are fearful as many regular couples starting out.

  14. #14
    Loading cactusmaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Forever Becoming - Pelican
    Posts
    4,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Robb View Post
    That's exactly it- it's Superman and She-Superman, a pretty boring couple. Not to say that it can't make for a good story to see it played out and the ramifications dealt with, but it won't be a long term relationship. It's just too vanilla.
    They'll ramp up WW's Xena attributes to compensate.
    The two most powerful warriors are patience and time - Leo Tolstoy

  15. #15
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    221B Baker Street
    Posts
    18,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Robb View Post
    That's exactly it- it's Superman and She-Superman, a pretty boring couple. Not to say that it can't make for a good story to see it played out and the ramifications dealt with, but it won't be a long term relationship. It's just too vanilla.
    WW shouldn't be She-Superman. Or else the writers are doing something wrong.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •