JSA in the New 52

[impulsegamer]

But I do read it. It's terrible, and not just because they ruined classic characters for the sake of some absurd pc pipedream. "Look at us! We're diverse and junk! Sure, we made characters unrecognizable for the sake of it, but what the hell do we care as long as that one kid who doesn't read comics because green lantern wasn't gay can now get into it. Sure it cost us a few thousand sales, but the gay kid will more than make up for it. Hey, it worked with the Atom, Firestorm, Blue Beetle, and all those others, right? They brought in all kinds of new minority readers, right?"

Beyond the jackassery of the new characterizations, the writing is barely tolerable, with some of the worst dialogue to be found. The plodding development, or lack thereof, of the entire book is frustrating as can be. I realize the fella is trying his hand at world building, but hammering a puddle for six months isn't getting it done. The best thing that could happen to this whole Earth 2 crap is a quick, painless death, followed immediately by the real Earth 2 and characters.

Screw nostalgia, it doesn't sell... make way for the New 52! It's like knocking down the pyramids to make way for an apartment complex there. I don't see why DC can't have both universes in print?

[glennsim]

Screw nostalgia, it doesn't sell... make way for the New 52! It's like knocking down the pyramids to make way for an apartment complex there. I don't see why DC can't have both universes in print?

IMO, because the concept isn't popular enough to support two books.

[stingo]

Well therin lies the difference between positive and negative comments. I make positive comments because I like what they are doing. I have no desire to enact change. You, however, are making negative comments and say you want the content to change. Posting in a newsgroup doesn't accomplish that.

Unless you just find it entertaining to tell other people about how you don't like something, which makes no sense. Unless of course your goal is to attempt to make sure that because you aren't getting what you want, you spoil it for everybody else. Which shows a high level of maturity.

But maybe I'm wrong. I post in the DC newsgroups because I find it entertaining to talk about a subject I enjoy. I do not visit or post in newsgroups on subjects I don't have anything positive to speak about. Heck, I don't even go to the Marvel group, and I don't particularly dislike Marvel, just don't have anything to say. So why do you post in the DC newsgroup?

But isn't the point of these sort of forums to ruminate and discuss likes AND dislikes? I think the problem arises when the passions become high on our favorite comics and people begin to dismiss well thought out and polite replies in favor of the easier insults and mean digs. Yes, these are "fictional" characters, but ones that have added something to many fan's enjoyment of this literary medium.

For the record? I have to confess that I am not a fan of the "New" DC's take on Earth Two. Yes, I have tried the title (and its sister book, "Worlds' Finest"). Not my cup of tea. As a result I have taken to purchasing many other titles that I do enjoy. My back issue collection has more than benefited from DC's move away from their older continuity. So perhaps a bittersweet "thank you" is in order to Dan DiDio and Geof Johns?

[glennsim]

But isn't the point of these sort of forums to ruminate and discuss likes AND dislikes? I think the problem arises when the passions become high on our favorite comics and people begin to dismiss well thought out and polite replies in favor of the easier insults and mean digs. Yes, these are "fictional" characters, but ones that have added something to many fan's enjoyment of this literary medium.

I suppose it comes down to, yes, they have every right to do so, but I am baffled as to why they would want to. I can pee in my back yard instead of going to the restroom, but after a while there's a reasonable question of why am I doing that?

You (the rhetorical "you") are mad because you no longer get something you used to enjoy. It's not the fault of anyone here - why bring us down? You're not going to convince anyone else to drop the book. Surely nobody who isn't reading it but is considering it is going to let a complete stranger's opinion sway them.

I can't come up with any reason other than "I want to make sure these people know that not everybody likes that book." - which, duh, is obvious. I can see the sales figures every month so I have a firm idea of what sales are like. Plus this forum isn't really much in the way of a representative sample anyway.

So then we're left with "I'm not getting what I want so I'm going to make sure nobody else has any fun." Which is just pouting. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

(Reminder - all "you" above is the rhetorical "you" - not talking about you personally)

There's plenty to discuss without constantly just talking about how the old version was better than the new. Speculation about how they will handle the characters. Discussion on how long it will be before they form a team. Even questions about the old continuity. But the constant "I hate the new book" just gets annoying.

(All of the above is my opinion and should not be taken as fact or any implication that I think anything should happen other than people making a different decision for themselves)

Of course, then people will say "well how is complaining about complaining any better?" - to which I have to point out the concept of self-defense. Punching me in the face = bad. Punching you in the face after you punched me in the face = fine. Sometimes "he did it first" is valid.

[SLGBARTELL]

But I do read it. It's terrible, and not just because they ruined classic characters for the sake of some absurd pc pipedream. "Look at us! We're diverse and junk! Sure, we made characters unrecognizable for the sake of it, but what the hell do we care as long as that one kid who doesn't read comics because green lantern wasn't gay can now get into it. Sure it cost us a few thousand sales, but the gay kid will more than make up for it. Hey, it worked with the Atom, Firestorm, Blue Beetle, and all those others, right? They brought in all kinds of new minority readers, right?"

Beyond the jackassery of the new characterizations, the writing is barely tolerable, with some of the worst dialogue to be found. The plodding development, or lack thereof, of the entire book is frustrating as can be. I realize the fella is trying his hand at world building, but hammering a puddle for six months isn't getting it done. The best thing that could happen to this whole Earth 2 crap is a quick, painless death, followed immediately by the real Earth 2 and characters.

Holy crap! Thats the most offensively racist/homophobic thing I've read in a while.

[stingo]

Hi Glennsim,

I get what you are saying and I respect your view. I might not like a certain take on a character and decide not to pick up that book as a result of that. I've been around the comic book block long enough to know that there is no such thing as a "permanent fix." Stick around long enough and you're likely to see a spin more to your liking. Certainly in the meantime I will NEVER slag on another reader just because their tastes in a comic doesn't mirror my own. Life is way too short, you know?

The above said, I do feel that good, solid, mature debate is something that I do look for in any sort of forum, be it a board on film, music, or comic books. It's when the debate descends into name calling and personal attacks that I just tune out. I have a sense that you might feel the same way yourself. Keeping it civil while expressing our mutual likes and our occasional differences of opinion is what makes these boards fun!

[MajorHoy]

To me, while I want the old JSA back, I have to realize DC wouldn't know what to do with them (look at the mess with tin-can-Alan prior to Flashpoint as one example), and I'm not sure enough readers would support a return to the way things were before then.

Reading many comments in various threads about how people don't like anything set in times other than the present or the future, I really wonder if there's any place for a reader like me any more.

[Kurosawa]

I'd love to have the classic JSA, but who the hell is going to write it? Anyone who could is banned from writing modern comics.

[stingo]

I'd love to have the classic JSA, but who the hell is going to write it? Anyone who could is banned from writing modern comics.

Sadly you are quite correct.

My first choice for a classic JSA revival would be, and has always been, Roy Thomas. However, for whatever reason, Roy is persona non grata with DC now. My second choice? David Goyer who, along with James Robinson, brought about a phenomenal revival of the Society concept in 1999. David has gone on record as being very much a proponent of keeping the JSA's long and storied history. He has always felt that this seventy plus year continuity, some of it patchy at best, was the key thing that separated Jay, Johnny, Al, Rex, Kent, Terry, and all of the rest from their modern day counterparts.

None of the above is written to ruffle the feathers of any readers who are currently digging on what James is doing over on the new "Earth Two" title. Just indulging in a favorite comic book pastime of "What If..."

[glennsim]

Hi Glennsim,

I get what you are saying and I respect your view. I might not like a certain take on a character and decide not to pick up that book as a result of that. I've been around the comic book block long enough to know that there is no such thing as a "permanent fix." Stick around long enough and you're likely to see a spin more to your liking. Certainly in the meantime I will NEVER slag on another reader just because their tastes in a comic doesn't mirror my own. Life is way too short, you know?

The above said, I do feel that good, solid, mature debate is something that I do look for in any sort of forum, be it a board on film, music, or comic books. It's when the debate descends into name calling and personal attacks that I just tune out. I have a sense that you might feel the same way yourself. Keeping it civil while expressing our mutual likes and our occasional differences of opinion is what makes these boards fun!

I don't even know what there is to debate. There's not enough information to debate anything. DC knows more about publishing comic books than anyone here. They made the decisions they had to make. Sales numbers pretty much support that up to this point, it was a good decision. Anything else is trying to put the needs of the one ahead of the needs of the many.

I suppose my feelings come from some experiences I'm having both here and in other places. I'm finding myself surrounded by places that ought to be fun, but I can't enjoy them because of conflict. Can't enjoy talking about the new52 on here because of the new52 haters. Can't enjoy Facebook because of the people (whom I otherwise might like) pasting ignorant infographics of political positions in opposition to my own. It's like the digital age has enabled us to communicate with one another so much more - but the result is that we find out how much we really don't like other people :)

There are times when people talk about whether some people want to be "challenged" in their entertainment, meaning intellectually challenged. In this case, I'm tired of being "challenged" in the more traditional sense.