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  1. #91
    Boy Wonder Jay!'s Avatar
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    I will always love pre-Flashpoint JSA, but I have to be honest, the last decade really was a struggle for me -- especially the last incarnation. I wanted to see the JSA young and active again and not a bunch of wannabe's. My ideal situation for the JSA would have been E-2 being the original pre-Crisis earth and set in the 40s. It's not what I got, but something is better than nothing.

    Now that Earth-2 is here, I'm in love and I'm glad it is what it is. Robinson has been careful and respectful with the characters. Nicola's art is breathtaking. This is an amazing title and an example of a reboot done right.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay! View Post
    I will always love pre-Flashpoint JSA, but I have to be honest, the last decade really was a struggle for me -- especially the last incarnation. I wanted to see the JSA young and active again and not a bunch of wannabe's. My ideal situation for the JSA would have been E-2 being the original pre-Crisis earth and set in the 40s. It's not what I got, but something is better than nothing.

    Now that Earth-2 is here, I'm in love and I'm glad it is what it is. Robinson has been careful and respectful with the characters. Nicola's art is breathtaking. This is an amazing title and an example of a reboot done right.
    I think I'd prefer "nothing" over what they are trying to pass off

  3. #93
    Boy Wonder Jay!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe1809 View Post
    I think I'd prefer "nothing" over what they are trying to pass off
    Have you read it? Or making a judgment based on sentimentality as some here have done? Try reading with an open mind.

    But if you prefer nothing ... don't read it. Move on. Step into the light.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay! View Post
    Have you read it? Or making a judgment based on sentimentality as some here have done? Try reading with an open mind.

    But if you prefer nothing ... don't read it. Move on. Step into the light.
    Yes, I've read it, and it's awful.

  5. #95
    Boy Wonder Jay!'s Avatar
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    To each his own.

  6. #96
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay! View Post
    I will always love pre-Flashpoint JSA, but I have to be honest, the last decade really was a struggle for me -- especially the last incarnation. I wanted to see the JSA young and active again and not a bunch of wannabe's. My ideal situation for the JSA would have been E-2 being the original pre-Crisis earth and set in the 40s. It's not what I got, but something is better than nothing.

    Now that Earth-2 is here, I'm in love and I'm glad it is what it is. Robinson has been careful and respectful with the characters. Nicola's art is breathtaking. This is an amazing title and an example of a reboot done right.
    I'm enjoying it quite a bit too. I buy a lot of comics, but it's one of the few where I get really excited about reading it.
    The DC relaunch was successful and was executed in what was most likely the best way it could given restrictions we wouldn't know about. No, your idea wouldn't have worked. Now move on.

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason456701 View Post
    James Robinson has stated on podcasts that they would go by Justice Society when they finally do form the team. They wont be going by Justice Society of America though because they will be taking in membership from all over the world thanks to the fact the people of Earth 2 are more united thanks to things like a unified world army.
    Really? Here I figured they'd use Earth-2 as a launching point for multiple solo titles while Earth-2 shifted into being a "present-rebooted-superheroes starting out" or the JSA book.

  8. #98

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    Some people have said the JSA being a bunch of old white guys (and girls) doesn't really sell comics, that their WW2 origin makes their continued superhero fighting increasingly difficult to buy. But that's easy to side-step, no? I mean, it's not like most of the originals haven't retired from the JSA? I'm under the impression it was only Green Lantern, Flash I & Wildcat I, right? And two of those are empowered by mystical/pseudo-scientific origins that explains their longevity. I'm at a loss for Wildcat though. Maybe the whole nine-lives thing?

    So couldn't you just have two Justice Society titles then? One focusing on the Justice Society's original founding prior to WW2 and dealing with their stories up until Per Degaton kicked them to whatever time-period is needed, and another on the modern incarnation, with Powergirl, Hourman, Jesse Quick, Sand, Atom Smasher, Damage, etc...

    The thing I like about the JSA & Earth-2 (not the book) personally, is that despite their history they aren't pop-culture icons or have continuous media appearances that focus on a certain group. Which means the development of Earth 2 can actually happen in contrast to New Earth's stunted growth. We can have multiple generations of the JSA or superheroes and actually have it stick. It's DC's Ultimate Universe, in a sense. The history can be kept, expanded on and pushed for long-running fans, while still kept fresh for new fans by introducing new generations of superheroes and new periods.

  9. #99
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHashasheen View Post
    Some people have said the JSA being a bunch of old white guys (and girls) doesn't really sell comics, that their WW2 origin makes their continued superhero fighting increasingly difficult to buy. But that's easy to side-step, no? I mean, it's not like most of the originals haven't retired from the JSA? I'm under the impression it was only Green Lantern, Flash I & Wildcat I, right? And two of those are empowered by mystical/pseudo-scientific origins that explains their longevity. I'm at a loss for Wildcat though. Maybe the whole nine-lives thing?

    So couldn't you just have two Justice Society titles then? One focusing on the Justice Society's original founding prior to WW2 and dealing with their stories up until Per Degaton kicked them to whatever time-period is needed, and another on the modern incarnation, with Powergirl, Hourman, Jesse Quick, Sand, Atom Smasher, Damage, etc...

    The thing I like about the JSA & Earth-2 (not the book) personally, is that despite their history they aren't pop-culture icons or have continuous media appearances that focus on a certain group. Which means the development of Earth 2 can actually happen in contrast to New Earth's stunted growth. We can have multiple generations of the JSA or superheroes and actually have it stick. It's DC's Ultimate Universe, in a sense. The history can be kept, expanded on and pushed for long-running fans, while still kept fresh for new fans by introducing new generations of superheroes and new periods.
    Well, there are a few issues there.

    Is it possible for those older heroes to still be around? Sure, but in some ways that's not the problem - it's the fact that their kids are all in their 20s. Why did they wait until they were 70 years old to have kids? And it's not just those 4 characters - its their spouses and hangers-on as well (Doiby Dickles still being around, for one example). It's just a bunch of hoops to jump through to keep the characters around. Marvel is going through the same thing with Captain America, Nick Fury, Black Window, Winter Soldier, Dum-Dum Dugan, etc. - various excuses have to be made to keep them young and fit.

    Plus, even if there are only 4 old white men in the modern JSA, that still leaves the option for flashbacks to when they were in their prime and members of the JSA with another 8-9 white straight men. You're locked down.

    Also, I don't think the JSA/Earth 2 concept is popular enough to support two versions. I don't know how many people would defect from "Earth 2" to a "WWII JSA" book or would buy both. In my opinion, I think you'd end up with a second book selling about 15,000 copies.

    Also, the concept of the multi-generation book pretty much throws out the whole theme of the DCnU, where the heroes are all young and either just starting out or haven't been around more that about 5 years. Now, some might argue that that's not a bad thing, but I think DC has the right to try to be somewhat consistent in that area.

    Finally, I think your last paragraph isn't necessarily invalidated by the latest Earth 2 book - it's just that that process has started over. Time will tell as to whether the Earth 2 heroes are allowed to age and have kids.
    The DC relaunch was successful and was executed in what was most likely the best way it could given restrictions we wouldn't know about. No, your idea wouldn't have worked. Now move on.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volkditty View Post
    If he doesn't get back to you, then let me hop in and say that yes, I like these guys and am totally fine if the previous incarnations are never seen again. I loved those old guys, they're what got me into comics in the first place, and I've got 70+ years of their backstory to enjoy and revisit. The new Earth 2 gives me a new cast of characters to grow to love. I don't understand why people seem to insist it has to be one or the other.
    It could be both...the mistake DC always makes is they destroy the old to bring in the new. Each time they do that they disenfranchise and lose more fans.
    Doomed Planet. Desperate Scientists. Last Hope. Kindly Couple.

  11. #101
    Junior Member Sk8maven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volkditty View Post
    No, they're not the same characters anymore. That's what makes it a reboot. Continuing to compare them to the originals even after admitting that you know they aren't supposed to be the same only makes you look bad, not them.
    Now honeychile, you're getting onto some pretty thin ice. There are moderators around who can and will yell at you (and if necessary delete your posts) if you pick on the person doing the posting rather than the content of the post.

    We were told and told and told that these were going to be "the same characters", updated, upgraded and moved into a new environment. Surprise - it didn't work out like that. It couldn't work out like that, for reasons which I have explained. However, there was no reason that "Alan Scott" should be rewritten as an unlikable pompous ass, and no reason to capriciously change Jay's hair color (especially to RED!) and rewrite him as a doofus as UNlike the original (and as much LIKE another speedster who's not supposed to be around any more) as possible.

    I wanted to read about Jay Garrick, not Wally West. And Wally fans want to read about Wally, not Jay. If somebody thought they were being "clever", they just might have outsmarted themselves.
    Everything I state is JUST MY OPINION. Take what you like and leave the rest.

  12. #102
    Junior Member Sk8maven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe1809 View Post
    Yes, I've read it [Earth-2], and it's awful.
    Can't agree that it's "awful", but it's certainly not living up to expectations - and my expectations weren't that high to start with.
    Everything I state is JUST MY OPINION. Take what you like and leave the rest.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe1809 View Post
    Yes, I've read it, and it's awful.
    I'm sure you gave it a fair shake. Oh wait. I'm being sarcastic again. Shame on me.
    D-Deadman! You killed Deadman!!

  14. #104
    Veteran Member Fate's Faith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe1809 View Post
    I think I'd prefer "nothing" over what they are trying to pass off
    That's what is so great about the new 52. You get nothing and we get a great title. Everyone gets what they want!

  15. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sk8maven View Post
    Can't agree that it's "awful", but it's certainly not living up to expectations - and my expectations weren't that high to start with.
    It's not awful but it just feels like some big Elseworld Experiment and unlike <yes shoot me> the original team, whether post/pre-crisis, I really doubt this team will remain for the future in its current incarnation...



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