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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Lee View Post
    Nah that's pretty tame. CBR forums are a joy to read. You should see the flaming at comicon.com. People tried to post a memorial thread to Joe Kubert and a bunch of guys claimed Kubert's participation in the Before Watchmen was a black mark on his career and much much worse. Like I said, the CBR forums are a joy to read this place is much more civil than some places.
    CBR has some of the most intelligent people with very passionate and insightful opinions I spend most of my time just reading what people like you have to say.
    Probably one the smartest boards on the Internet.

    I am being very serious.

  2. #17

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    Why couldn't we have just gotten 12 issues of Darwyn Cooke Minutemen? That's the only mini that I've been really enjoying so far. The rest are just average.
    Last edited by VictoryStar; 09-07-2012 at 10:26 PM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by veryunderstated View Post
    do people actually give a shit about these books? the original watchmen isn't even that good, why should anyone care about some sort of prequel? man... I just don't get it, Alan Moore made it so people love it, even though it's shallow and boring. wtf?
    It's the greatest American comic ever made...

  4. #19

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    I am gonna pretend these never existed

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfOfMibu1991 View Post
    I am gonna pretend these never existed
    That's what I've been doing. As far as I'm concerned, WATCHMEN is a single stand-alone story with nothing more.

  6. #21
    Universal Turing machine cgh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by transvestitegod View Post
    It's the greatest American comic ever made...
    Well, I think the Peanuts gang would have a few words to say about that. Besides, Watchmen was written, drawn and coloured by Brits.
    “Wonder Woman is a lame superhero...She flies around in her invisible jet and her weaponry is a lasso that makes you tell the truth. I just don’t get it.” -- Megan Fox

  7. #22
    More human than human. Johnny P. Sartre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgh View Post
    Well, I think the Peanuts gang would have a few words to say about that. Besides, Watchmen was written, drawn and coloured by Brits.
    And gasoline alley, love and rockets, and a whole LIST of other comic books.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgh View Post
    Well, I think the Peanuts gang would have a few words to say about that. Besides, Watchmen was written, drawn and coloured by Brits.
    It was published by an American company. It's an American comic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Otchofriend View Post
    And gasoline alley, love and rockets, and a whole LIST of other comic books.
    None of these comics are the Goliath that Watchmen is. Commercial success; acclaim; creativity; technicality; influence; it has no equal when it comes to American comics.

  9. #24
    More human than human. Johnny P. Sartre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by transvestitegod View Post
    None of these comics are the Goliath that Watchmen is. Commercial success; acclaim; creativity; technicality; influence; it has no equal when it comes to American comics.
    Commercial success, oh yeah but L&R, Eightball, RAW, Rubber Blanket, Gasoline Alley, Concrete, EC comics, etc have beaten in that venue.
    Last edited by Johnny P. Sartre; 09-08-2012 at 09:30 PM.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgh View Post
    Well, I think the Peanuts gang would have a few words to say about that. Besides, Watchmen was written, drawn and coloured by Brits.
    Peanuts isn't even a comic. It's a strip.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Peanuts isn't even a comic. It's a strip.
    That's cutting it pretty fine, but fair enough. Besides, if we're comparing Watchmen to Peanuts, then we have to compare both of them to classic newspaper strips by the likes of Al Capp, Windsor McCay, and George Herriman. That would be a tall order even for a talent like Charles Schultz.

    While we're talking comic strips, at least no one has decided to publish Before Krazy Kat. That would be far more depressing than this whole Watchmen debacle.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otchofriend View Post
    Commercial success, oh yeah but L&R, Eightball, RAW, Rubber Blanket, Gasoline Alley, Concrete, EC comics, etc have beaten in that venue.
    Acclaim: It's the one comic consistently considered among the greatest literary reads, and when there are others, it's the highest regarded; it was the first to receive a Hugo Award; it is most widely respected comic text outside of the English language comics world.

    Creativity: Just the idea of telling a comic that can only be told in comics was groundbreaking at the time.

    Technicality: The use of recurring visual motifs (e.g. smiley face, doomsday clock, street grafiti hinting at the plot); configurative paneling (e.g. every panel in issue five is a resemblance of one another); juxtaposing what the reader is seeing and what they're reading (e.g. Comedian getting thrown out of the window as the bellhop tells the detective "ground floor coming up"). These comic mechanics were and probably still are unrivaled achievements (though The Nightly News comes damn close in terms of pushing the boundaries of what sequential art can do).

    Influence: Next to changing the superhero genre, the above techniques Moore and Gibbons engineered have been ripped off by...Hell, I can't think of any great comic published since Watchmen that doesn't use them, including ones penned by Moore himself.


    All in all...Watchmen is by far the most seminal work in American comics.

  13. #28
    Universal Turing machine cgh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by transvestitegod View Post
    Acclaim: It's the one comic consistently considered among the greatest literary reads, and when there are others, it's the highest regarded; it was the first to receive a Hugo Award; it is most widely respected comic text outside of the English language comics world.

    Creativity: Just the idea of telling a comic that can only be told in comics was groundbreaking at the time.

    Technicality: The use of recurring visual motifs (e.g. smiley face, doomsday clock, street grafiti hinting at the plot); configurative paneling (e.g. every panel in issue five is a resemblance of one another); juxtaposing what the reader is seeing and what they're reading (e.g. Comedian getting thrown out of the window as the bellhop tells the detective "ground floor coming up"). These comic mechanics were and probably still are unrivaled achievements (though The Nightly News comes damn close in terms of pushing the boundaries of what sequential art can do).

    Influence: Next to changing the superhero genre, the above techniques Moore and Gibbons engineered have been ripped off by...Hell, I can't think of any great comic published since Watchmen that doesn't use them, including ones penned by Moore himself.


    All in all...Watchmen is by far the most seminal work in American comics.
    No, it's really not. Even in the limited realm of American superhero comics, Lee and Kirby's Fantastic Four has it beat in the "seminal" department.

    Don't get me wrong, I do love Watchmen. But truly seminal comics are Peanuts, Krazy Kat, The Spirit, etc.

    Here, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Com...00_Comics_list

    Watchmen comes in at number 91, which is actually pretty respectable for a superhero comic.
    “Wonder Woman is a lame superhero...She flies around in her invisible jet and her weaponry is a lasso that makes you tell the truth. I just don’t get it.” -- Megan Fox

  14. #29
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    Christ, that's the lowest I've ever seen Watchmen on any list. I think that's the lowest Watchmen has been put on any list, ever (bar the times it's counted among prose novels, of course). It's still the most highly regarded comic though and overall, has no peer in the American comic market.

  15. #30
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    I think I see where this is going, so I'll just nip it in the bud before I head off to work.
    Fact is, there is no American comic that defeats Watchmen tit-for-tat on a list of criteria.
    Any category your chosen comic might surpass it in, will lose to it in three others.
    Overall, Watchmen is matchless. A masterpiece on every conceivable level.
    It's been twenty-five years, I should not have to argue this to anyone older than fourteen.

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