Sons of Anarchy -- Season Five

[Phil Clark]

You ask how I come up with that logic, and then the second part of your quote of my comments explains how I arrived at that conclusion.

And what you call an oversight, I call an accident. Tig's goal was to kill LeRoy. He missed, and got his girl instead. Accident.

And my use of "white knight" is totally keeping things in the perspective of the world he lives in, the inner workings of an outlaw biker gang. He has been until recently Clays enforcer and bodyguard. Yes, he has murdered. Yes he has also done a lot of really sick thing (necrophilia for one). But he doesn't generally hurt anyone that doesn't go up against the club. He killed Donna, true... but that was an accident. He was gunning for Opie because according to information from Stahl, Opie had ratted on the club. Opie no longer holds that against Tig, but he DOES still hold it against Clay since Clay was the one to order the hit instead of confronting Opie about it.

Don't get me wrong. ALL of the cast of SOA are bad people, and I fully acknowledge that fact. But in that perspective, Tig is much less bad than we will find Pope to be this season. If he survives more than a few episodes.

[7thangel]

You ask how I come up with that logic, and then the second part of your quote of my comments explains how I arrived at that conclusion.

And what you call an oversight, I call an accident. Tig's goal was to kill LeRoy. He missed, and got his girl instead. Accident.

And my use of "white knight" is totally keeping things in the perspective of the world he lives in, the inner workings of an outlaw biker gang. He has been until recently Clays enforcer and bodyguard. Yes, he has murdered. Yes he has also done a lot of really sick thing (necrophilia for one). But he doesn't generally hurt anyone that doesn't go up against the club. He killed Donna, true... but that was an accident. He was gunning for Opie because according to information from Stahl, Opie had ratted on the club. Opie no longer holds that against Tig, but he DOES still hold it against Clay since Clay was the one to order the hit instead of confronting Opie about it.

Don't get me wrong. ALL of the cast of SOA are bad people, and I fully acknowledge that fact. But in that perspective, Tig is much less bad than we will find Pope to be this season. If he survives more than a few episodes.

again, it's not an accident because he didn't give a damn who got killed in the process. there is no "oops, my bad" in the game (same with Opie's wife).

you talk about in the context in the world of gangs. well, fucking up a hit and then fucking up a murder (which he took upon himself to commit out of guilt), both involving innocents. leaving witnesses that will bring war to your gang. being caught slippin' and not having the foresight to be prepared for any blowback personally, including ones family, or those in the gang and their families is worse. that gets you killed by your own.

[Phil Clark]

again, it's not an accident because he didn't give a damn who got killed in the process. there is no "oops, my bad" in the game (same with Opie's wife).

you talk about in the context in the world of gangs. well, fucking up a hit and then fucking up a murder (which he took upon himself to commit out of guilt), both involving innocents. leaving witnesses that will bring war to your gang. being caught slippin' and not having the foresight to be prepared for any blowback personally, including ones family, or those in the gang and their families is worse. that gets you killed by your own.

It is your interpretation that he didn't give a damn who got killed in the process. He was gunning for LeRoy, the girl would have been collateral damage.

As far as witnesses... I suspect those witnesses that "came forward" will be proven to have not even been anywhere near where any of the incidents they claim to have witnessed actually occurred. Particularly since the witnesses to the Caruso hit said that Jax was there, and we all know he was not. It was Bobby, and I think Happy and Tig. But definitely NOT Jax.

The rest of what you have to say... it feels like an incomplete thought coupled with lumping two separate incidents together. The club considers the Donna situation closed. The fallout from the Popes daughter incident hasn't impacted the club at all... yet.

[Surtur]

EDIT: Wait something just occurred to me..the scene with Unser and his pet..bird I think? He says "I miss her too". Did he mean Gemma? I can't figure out who else he could mean since we haven't seen his wife or anything.

Wait they aren't like..together are they?

[longshot3]

EDIT: Wait something just occurred to me..the scene with Unser and his pet..bird I think? He says "I miss her too". Did he mean Gemma? I can't figure out who else he could mean since we haven't seen his wife or anything.

Wait they aren't like..together are they?

Im pretty sure it was Gemma but I dont think they were together, but I got the impression she was living there with him. So, who's causing the home invasions with the guy with the prosthetic leg?

[numberthirty]

Was I the only person that felt like this was some Empire Strikes Back nonsense? I don't want to list spoilers this soon but, come on.

What are you talking about?

How the new character wound up being used felt like straight up Lando. Every possible thing going nose over tail. It was all a bit much.

[Jared]

After Clay, I think it's a tossup between Tig and Happy for "Worst Human Being in the SoA."

Happy and Tig were both apparently willing to kill the a witness who turned out to be a little girl. Given how perverse Tig apparently is, I'd be almost shocked if he doesn't have some kind of sex offenses in his background beyond just corpse humping. Happy just seems like a remorseless sociopath.

I don't get the Empire Strikes back comparison, at all. Unless...could Clay be Jax's real father? I don't recall anything hinting about that...seems like J.T. and Gemma were close until Jax's older brother died, and Jax had already been born then, IIRC.

How the new character wound up being used felt like straight up Lando. Every possible thing going nose over tail. It was all a bit much.

Wait, which new character?

[Torskjegg]

Im pretty sure it was Gemma but I dont think they were together, but I got the impression she was living there with him. So, who's causing the home invasions with the guy with the prosthetic leg?

Yeah it is Gemma. Unser adores her, that is one-sided though. They are not together from what I can tell, but he is a safe haven for her. I missed the prosthetic leg guy completely.

I won't be surprised if more of the old guard die this season. Still kind of irked the club didn't kick Clay out when he half-lied about Piney.

[Phil Clark]

EDIT: Wait something just occurred to me..the scene with Unser and his pet..bird I think? He says "I miss her too". Did he mean Gemma? I can't figure out who else he could mean since we haven't seen his wife or anything.

Wait they aren't like..together are they?

He was talking about Gemma, and that wasn't HIS pet bird, it was Gemma's bird. In Gemma's home. He has been staying there to sort of protect her since Clay beat her. It was established a couple seasons back that Unser loves Gemma. And she loves him too, just not as much or in the same way. But she is not above using his love for her to control/manipulate him.

[longshot3]

Yeah it is Gemma. Unser adores her, that is one-sided though. They are not together from what I can tell, but he is a safe haven for her. I missed the prosthetic leg guy completely.

I won't be surprised if more of the old guard die this season. Still kind of irked the club didn't kick Clay out when he half-lied about Piney.

yeah when they stormed in at the end, there was a close up of their feet and one guy was shown to have peg-leg.... crap is it Greg the Peg and the ex-nomads doing the home invasions and why the F??

[Alan Lynch]

yeah when they stormed in at the end, there was a close up of their feet and one guy was shown to have peg-leg.... crap is it Greg the Peg and the ex-nomads doing the home invasions and why the F??

I'm guessing Clay has had something to do with it. Not sure how, but I wouldn't put it past him to use the nomads to undermine Jax somehow.

[The Cool Thatguy]

yeah when they stormed in at the end, there was a close up of their feet and one guy was shown to have peg-leg.... crap is it Greg the Peg and the ex-nomads doing the home invasions and why the F??

Wait what? Why do you think it's one of the nomads?

[Surtur]

He was talking about Gemma, and that wasn't HIS pet bird, it was Gemma's bird. In Gemma's home. He has been staying there to sort of protect her since Clay beat her. It was established a couple seasons back that Unser loves Gemma. And she loves him too, just not as much or in the same way. But she is not above using his love for her to control/manipulate him.

Oh ok, I just wanted to make sure they weren't hinting Gemma and Unser were together.

[Phil Clark]

Unser would like to be with Gemma, but Gemma only let's him think it will happen so she can get him to do what she wants him to do in order to protect Jax, Clay and the club.

[7thangel]

It is your interpretation that he didn't give a damn who got killed in the process. He was gunning for LeRoy, the girl would have been collateral damage.

As far as witnesses... I suspect those witnesses that "came forward" will be proven to have not even been anywhere near where any of the incidents they claim to have witnessed actually occurred. Particularly since the witnesses to the Caruso hit said that Jax was there, and we all know he was not. It was Bobby, and I think Happy and Tig. But definitely NOT Jax.

The rest of what you have to say... it feels like an incomplete thought coupled with lumping two separate incidents together. The club considers the Donna situation closed. The fallout from the Popes daughter incident hasn't impacted the club at all... yet.

it's not my interpretation, it's what happened.

when i refereed to the witnesses, i'm talking about the Niners, that's why i said "leaving witnesses that will bring war to your gang"

it's not an incomplete thought, it's based on this quote from you "But in context of the world of gangs, his actions were not nearly as bad as Popes have been so far...".

the fact that the some members are in hiding and have been hijacked disproves your statement that it hasn't impacted the club.

it's obvious that we're not going to see eye to eye on this. i stand by my statement that Tig needs to die painfully (i'm assuming he will be around for the next season)