Shelf Life - Aug 23, 2012

[CBR News]

People make mistakes in their youth, and this week Ron Marz looks back at one instance that still haunts him -- the time he [em]almost[/em] stole -- and explains his thoughts on piracy.


Full article here.

[Ziza9]

People make mistakes in their youth, and this week Ron Marz looks back at one instance that still haunts him -- the time he [em]almost[/em] stole -- and explains his thoughts on piracy.


Full article here.

I wonder if something like Miracleman is the exception here though. Many people want to read it. It isn't currently being published and the only sales that would be hurt are those of the people on ebay selling issues at an overpriced number. I have all but 5 physical copies of the Moore/Gaiman issues. Two of those five I have saved as downloads. With the way things seemed to be fubared in terms of the rights to those issues, the choice for many seems to be threefold: Download, get lucky and find copies at larger online and brick and mortars that aren't jacking up the prices on the original trades/issues, or just never read the story so many laud because reprints may never come.

To an extent, The Elementals may fall into this category as well.

[babydave]

It's the same as getting it from a library. It's not bullshit. It's true. Someone had to buy the book to scan it, and the library had to buy the book to lend it. The copying angle matters not to a reader or watcher that is going to experience the content for free from a library or download. The internet is one big library where lending happens through digital copies instead of physical ones. Even libraries lend digital copies now. Times, they are a changin'.

If you're bothered by how often your books are downloaded, then I have the solution for you. Don't find out. Saves you and everyone else the trouble of the inevitable fallout. Take comfort in the fact that if it's worth paying for people will do so...or for those that don't make stuff worth paying for, welcome to your nightmare.

I pursue uncontroversial options whenever possible. When not, I pursue whatever option is available, and I'm thankful that those options are available at all with the internet getting to the point where it has more shackles than print ever did when it should have less.

[blanchett]

As far as I'm concerned if you wanted to see Solomon Kane(never heard of it personally) there should be a legal method for you to do so. International copyright law needs to change. If the same content was available to purchase legally internationally at the same time piracy would be a much smaller issue. That's just a fact. The internet has changed the world. It's a lot smaller now. I can understand disliking it but like you said the genie is out of the bottle and the entertainment industry needs to focus on adapting to this rather than pushing for heavily intrusive laws on members of the public. As we've seen the public will push back. Like many people I took part in Black March and contacted my local politicians about ACTA. I received a response from a few of them saying that they understood our concerns about privacy. They this by responding to me and about 600 people in the same email......

[Ziza9]

Piggybacking on the library argument: "It's the same as the library." No, it's not, stupid. A library lends out one copy (which it purchased) at a time, to one person at a time. A library does not make an infinite number of copies to be shared by an infinite number of users."

Yes the library makes one copy, but that copy may be taken out say over a thousand times. I don't see the difference between that and someone scanning and uploading a copy of a particular book and it being downloaded 1000 times all at once. The end effect is the same. The only difference being speed, convenience, and not having to wait for the one copy to be returned. In the end only one person/organization purchased a copy, but tons of people will get to read it for free instead of also purchasing a copy. To me, the it's just like the library argument is valid.

[Brian from Canada]

Ron Marz has every right to take the high road. It's a personal thing, and I congratulate him for his convictions.

But those convictions are not for everybody — particularly for the corporations that now acknowledge the danger of offering content in one geographical area of the world and not another. Most content producers are aware of the global sharing of opinion. Some content providers, such as BBC America, are moving broadcast dates closer to their home country in an effort to maintain the audience. And some content providers — like Apple of all companies! — are offering legitimate solutions to get past international boundaries. (In other words: you COULD see Solomon Kane earlier if you bought a UK iTunes gift card [eBay] and used that to buy it.)

More importantly, though, I think the library function of illegal downloading is something to be concerned about in the comics field. On the one hand, companies like Marvel have been successful at getting some content available digitally for a subscription price, even though they lack present content. On the other, while sales are lost in the monthlies, we need to see a concrete study as to whether readers of the illegal copies are buying their stories in trades vs just relying on digital piracy.

I know in the case of Ron Marz's Witchblade series, my local comic store isn't local and not very friendly; but downloading the comics, I found a reason to get into the comics and have been ordering trades of the series from my national retailer because (a) it's much more cost efficient [30% off vs cover price], and (b) far more valuable to me to have something I can easily access vs something I need to store in my basement in specialized containers. Conversely, I've also dropped series because I've found reading the digital copies they are not worth getting at the store or in trades — especially not at 1/2 hour pay on a part time salary!

But then again, that's just me. We're all entitled to our opinions.

[D-Barkles]

for those who use the 'library' argument, I wonder how many of them 'return' the book by deleting it from their hard drive? Generally (but certiainly not in all cases), people who pirate think they deserve stuff for free. Legal digital distribution of comics has a way to go before it's perfect, but it's pretty good at the moment, with comixology, graphicly, etc. I think there are very few legitimate reasons for piracy of comics.

[Ron Marz]

Library: one copy, loaned to one individual at a time.

Illegal download: unlimited number of copies offered to unlimited numbers of users.

Libraries loan out individual copies. Libraries do not MAKE copies.

[Steve Broome]

Let's keep it simple, a library is a place where people have agreed to lend something for free, along with fees, which do in fact occur after some time. Piracy is nothing like that because if you had permission from the creators/owners you wouldn't actually be calling it piracy.

[sandwich eater]

While, I agree that downloading or uploading unauthorized digital copies of copyrighted content (or "piracy" as it has been hyperbolically named) is wrong, and I don't do it, I believe that there are some cases where it could be beneficial. For example, ROMs of old console video games are probably the only way to archive them for posterity. What if you want to play an old obscure NES game? If you are lucky the game is popular and a single company owns the license to the game. If this is the case they can distribute the game digitally, and you can buy it. But, what if the company no longer exists, or what if the rights to a game have become a convoluted mess across multiple companies so that it will never see a re-release? In that case you could buy a working NES console and a working used cartridge of the game. Finding working used copies could probably be difficult, so you are then left with "piracy." You could say that we aren't entitled to play these games if they are no longer offered for sale, but if no one is preserving them as ROMs (which is a legal gray area) then we will be losing part of our cultural heritage as these cartridges break down or wear away.

[blanchett]

I think comixology is great. I only pay the US price so I'm not getting stung for shipping anymore. Usually it would cost me about 6-7 dollars per comic. Just not economical. Their customer service is amazing too. I've had a couple of little issues with them(comics not showing up in mycomics etc). In a matter of minutes they seem to fix things. So regarding comic books I think that industry is changing and adapting to the times. Particularly marvel with their digital comics subscription service. I don't get why DC's new comics always always show up later than Marvel's on a wednesday!

Regarding apple making everything available internationally, that's just not true. TV shows haven't been set up in my country at all. Not even a limited selection. The music catalogue is limited too. I was listening to some celebrity playlists in the US store and adding some songs to my wishlist. Only half showed up because I wasn't registered at the US store. I can't imagine you could buy that movie without committing credit card fraud either. Something else I noticed was even when I was just putting my cds on the computer I noticed that Itunes didn't stock them. Particularly complilations. Itunes is a lot more limited that most people realize. There's also no alternative in my country whatsoever to Itunes due to international copyright.

Regarding the library thing. I just finished a degree. I frequently copied chapters from library books rather than carry the actual books around(they were really heavy and causing me back problems). In other words, libraries actually offer you the option of copying books and make a profit off that. It might be low quality but most pirated things are. No one is accusing libraries of allowing people to steal information/copyrighted material. What's the difference?

[Ziza9]

While, I agree that downloading or uploading unauthorized digital copies of copyrighted content (or "piracy" as it has been hyperbolically named) is wrong, and I don't do it, I believe that there are some cases where it could be beneficial. For example, ROMs of old console video games are probably the only way to archive them for posterity. What if you want to play an old obscure NES game? If you are lucky the game is popular and a single company owns the license to the game. If this is the case they can distribute the game digitally, and you can buy it. But, what if the company no longer exists, or what if the rights to a game have become a convoluted mess across multiple companies so that it will never see a re-release? In that case you could buy a working NES console and a working used cartridge of the game. Finding working used copies could probably be difficult, so you are then left with "piracy." You could say that we aren't entitled to play these games if they are no longer offered for sale, but if no one is preserving them as ROMs (which is a legal gray area) then we will be losing part of our cultural heritage as these cartridges break down or wear away.

Great point and similar to one I made earlier about older comics stuck in rights limbo. I don't download the latest issue of Uncanny X-Force or Hypernaturals, but I will seek out things like Elementals #1 , Doctor Zero (Epic), or a version of an old Nintendo game that is long out of circulation. I don't know if that makes me anymore or less a "pirate."

[FTJT]

The thing about torrenting/internet piracy that people don't get is that it's not theft - because there's no loss to the creator. Just as with a library, people are able to read the comic/watch the film at zero purchase cost to themselves and with zero marginal production cost to the content producer.

It doesn't matter whether the scanner's copy is read by one person or fifty thousand - one comic was sold and one comic was bought. You're not entitled to make money from your art. You never were. It was just bankable for a long time. 'Potential customers' don't owe you anything, it's up to you to convince them that holding an issue in their hands is worth the $4. There's plenty of for-profit webcomics; and things like FreakAngels show that trad-comic fans are a loyal bunch, and will meet you in the middle if you treat them with something other than contempt.

[Steve Broome]

The thing about torrenting/internet piracy that people don't get is that it's not theft - because there's no loss to the creator. Just as with a library, people are able to read the comic/watch the film at zero purchase cost to themselves and with zero marginal production cost to the content producer.

It doesn't matter whether the scanner's copy is read by one person or fifty thousand - one comic was sold and one comic was bought. You're not entitled to make money from your art. You never were. It was just bankable for a long time. 'Potential customers' don't owe you anything, it's up to you to convince them that holding an issue in their hands is worth the $4. There's plenty of for-profit webcomics; and things like FreakAngels show that trad-comic fans are a loyal bunch, and will meet you in the middle if you treat them with something other than contempt.

Entirely wrong. What you and so many other wannabe lawyers miss is that you aren't entitled to EXPERIENCE the art if you don't think creators deserve to get paid for it. Too expensive? Cool, show your disdain by NOT BUYING it and not experiencing the results of their work. That's how you object, not by taking something for free that you're supposed to pay for SMH.

Great point and similar to one I made earlier about older comics stuck in rights limbo. I don't download the latest issue of Uncanny X-Force or Hypernaturals, but I will seek out things like Elementals #1 , Doctor Zero (Epic), or a version of an old Nintendo game that is long out of circulation. I don't know if that makes me anymore or less a "pirate."

These points are understandable, unfortunately the people who bring them up over and over and over again every time these types of threads pop up ignore the fact that this isn't what people are using piracy for. It's as simple as people getting stuff for free that's usually very popular. The top downloaded movies and music lists confirm this every single year.

[D-Barkles]

just like you are not entitled to someone elses art for free.