Avengers worst character assassination

[Monty_Cristo]

Luke Cage was better under Bendis than any other writer. Period.

Ostrander's Heroes for Hire book has time traveled to the present to slay the abomination that is this opinion.

[Beacon]

Still think Bendis’ Hawkeye is the worst offender in recent years. I’ve only really been a fan of the character since the early Thunderbolts days and even I’m annoyed at the damage Bendis did. I can’t imagine what its like for long-time fans.

Ostrander's Heroes for Hire book has time traveled to the present to slay the abomination that is this opinion.

Yeah, Ostrander’s Cage was the first version that I know of who was more than just a silly blaxploitation character. I suppose the argument could be made that it (and the Bendis characterization too) are both “assassinations” but I don’t think the original has much going for it beyond the hilarious camp stuff.

Besides, everyone knows Azzarello’s Cage is the worst Cage.

[Spideress]

That is the problem though.

Too many of them have gone nuts with dangerous repercussions for them NOT to take preventative measures against thier members freaking out.

A guy like Moon Knight going nuts (again) might be swept under the rug, but Wonder Man?

Tonk Stark could have killed some poor sap by accident while piloting the Iron Man drunk.

Quicksilver's Leery Jenkins moment could have caused war between the Inhumans and the Earth. Had he been locked up after House Of M (or had the Avengers even started an exhaustive manhunt for him) it might have kept him out of mischief.

You'd think concern for thier professional reputation would lead them to intervene, family or no.

Yeah, all points Tony tried to make that Cap & Co. refused to listen to. The Superhero community has been TERRIBLE at policing itself.

It was an assassination followed by a beat down in an MMA match and then he got F-5ed.

Iron Man wins.

I agree that Tony has gotten run over by many a bus the last decade or so by the writers. He may have been a narcissistic a$$, but we all knew he had a good heart inside. And then the Civil War turned him into a cold-hearted, profiteering sociopath, and I can't figure out why exactly - to keep Cap from looking like the over-the-top a$$h0le, I guess?

[Spideress]

The Gamma Bomb ? The Radioactive Spider ? JFK ? The TARDIS ? All Wolverine !

The way things are going nowadays, I really wouldn't put it past them, y'know.
(Erskine only choose Steve Rogers because Logan turned him down. Wolverine found Thor's Hammer, but felt it crippled his style, so he left it for Blake. Galactus did try to eat Earth before, but Wolverine sent him away. Iron Man's armour? Wolverine left the design lying around, and Stark copied it.. Titles soon to be launched: Wolverine: First Avenger. Wolverine and the Avengers. The Avenging Wolverine. Tales of the Wolverine Universe. All presented to you by the Wolverine House of Ideas.)


Peace

I laughed. A lot.

[hawkeyefan]

then i'll cry poor writing. Bendis simply didn't 'get' Clint. Clint would have been better off being untouched by Bendis. the fact that people are enjoying Fraction's take on the character is proof. the latter isn't adhering to some template either. he's simply a better writer.

I disagree. First off, the fact that people are enjoying Fraction's take is proof that Bendis did no lasting damage. If he had damaged Clint so much, then a solo book launched just as Bendis was finishing his time with the character probably wouldn't have appealed to so many.

I enjoy Fraction's take more than Bendis's, for sure. But they are doing different things with the character. Bendis broke Clint down bit by bit and then had him hit rock bottom, and then built him back up. Fraction is going for a more general hard luck everyman approach. Both are valid, and which is better is simply a matter of opinion.

Still think Bendis’ Hawkeye is the worst offender in recent years. I’ve only really been a fan of the character since the early Thunderbolts days and even I’m annoyed at the damage Bendis did. I can’t imagine what its like for long-time fans.

What damage? I don't get when people say this kind of thing. What did Bendis do to the character that has damaged him so much?

Ostrander's Heroes for Hire book has time traveled to the present to slay the abomination that is this opinion.

Ha Well I agree with you at least partially, here. I don't mind Bendis's take on Cage...but he certainly wasn't the first writer who did the character justice. Ostrander's HfH book is an overlooked gem.

[brettc1]

Which, for you, was the worst character assassination in Avengers history? Why?

Peace

I recall the awful fate of Carol Danvers when the Avengers were written as happily letting her go off with a guy who had used brainwashing to rape her.

Still, the worst to my mind still goes to Civil War Tony Stark. If only because it was just a years long experience in suffering.

[Nomads1]

What damage? I don't get when people say this kind of thing. What did Bendis do to the character that has damaged him so much?

I can only speak for myself, but I found Bendis' Hawkeye a dumb guy. Clint may have started out as a slightly uneducated guy, but years of evolution had changed this, and he was never DUMB. He had been an Avengers leader, as well as a Thunderbolts one. He was always the kind of guy that would bend the rules as far as he could, but not break them. That's also something that bugged me, as hotheaded as he always was, Hawkeye was always a principled guy. I don't see Bendis' Hawkeye as a principled man. I know his defenders like to claim that it was because things were never that bad, that it was a desperate situation, however, Bendis' writing never managed to convince me of that. Anyone that has read Avengers before knows that most of what Bendis had the Avengers face was like a normal Tuesday for them (except for ninjas. The Avengers had never faced ninjas before. No wonder they had so much trouble. ). All it made me do was think that these guys are dumb for not finding better sollutions to the problems they were facing. Something else that he went overboard, and that really stuck with the character, is that, from day one, his Hawkeye is a borderline mysogynist (in the sense of prejudice against them, of course, not in being repulsed at having sex with them). He objectifies women. I mean, he was always a bit of a sexist, but now I find him unlikable for the way he treats women. However, this may be seen as a modern way of writing his traits, that writers wouldn't dare to go that far in the 80's or the 90's. I do find it makes him more unlikable though. The moviefication?ultimatification of Hawkeye I don't think can be laid soley on Bendis' feet. That, IMHO, was an editorial decision.

Peace

[Monty_Cristo]

I can only speak for myself, but I found Bendis' Hawkeye a dumb guy. Clint may have started out as a slightly uneducated guy, but years of evolution had changed this, and he was never DUMB. He had been an Avengers leader, as well as a Thunderbolts one. He was always the kind of guy that would bend the rules as far as he could, but not break them. That's also something that bugged me, as hotheaded as he always was, Hawkeye was always a principled guy. I don't see Bendis' Hawkeye as a principled man. I know his defenders like to claim that it was because things were never that bad, that it was a desperate situation, however, Bendis' writing never managed to convince me of that. Anyone that has read Avengers before knows that most of what Bendis had the Avengers face was like a normal Tuesday for them (except for ninjas. The Avengers had never faced ninjas before. No wonder they had so much trouble. ). All it made me do was think that these guys are dumb for not finding better sollutions to the problems they were facing. Something else that he went overboard, and that really stuck with the character, is that, from day one, his Hawkeye is a borderline mysogynist (in the sense of prejudice against them, of course, not in being repulsed at having sex with them). He objectifies women. I mean, he was always a bit of a sexist, but now I find him unlikable for the way he treats women. However, this may be seen as a modern way of writing his traits, that writers wouldn't dare to go that far in the 80's or the 90's. I do find it makes him more unlikable though. The moviefication?ultimatification of Hawkeye I don't think can be laid soley on Bendis' feet. That, IMHO, was an editorial decision.

Peace

yeah, all of that. but for me, I was more offended by Clint suddenly not being a very fun character. Bendis was too busy trying to make him seem like a b@d@$$ assassin. Hawkeye showing up is supposed to shake things up for the Avengers. he's like a morale booster. even Geoff Johns, as short as his run was, understood that you bring Clint in when things aren't going well for the team. he's there to turn the tide; not wallow in it and stupidly try to kill Norman Osborn (wtf?).

he also really effed up Clint's western motif; trying to turn him into a wannabe ninja. personally, i'd rather see Clint throwing knives than carrying some curved blade. Swordsman, his teacher, carried a broadsword. he also didn't think Clint was that great with the sword. that's why he ended up an archer. and, yeah, the womanizing isn't all Bendis. but how Echo was treated was all Bendis. how Tigra was treated was all Bendis.

[hawkeyefan]

I can only speak for myself, but I found Bendis' Hawkeye a dumb guy. Clint may have started out as a slightly uneducated guy, but years of evolution had changed this, and he was never DUMB. He had been an Avengers leader, as well as a Thunderbolts one. He was always the kind of guy that would bend the rules as far as he could, but not break them. That's also something that bugged me, as hotheaded as he always was, Hawkeye was always a principled guy. I don't see Bendis' Hawkeye as a principled man. I know his defenders like to claim that it was because things were never that bad, that it was a desperate situation, however, Bendis' writing never managed to convince me of that. Anyone that has read Avengers before knows that most of what Bendis had the Avengers face was like a normal Tuesday for them (except for ninjas. The Avengers had never faced ninjas before. No wonder they had so much trouble. ). All it made me do was think that these guys are dumb for not finding better sollutions to the problems they were facing. Something else that he went overboard, and that really stuck with the character, is that, from day one, his Hawkeye is a borderline mysogynist (in the sense of prejudice against them, of course, not in being repulsed at having sex with them). He objectifies women. I mean, he was always a bit of a sexist, but now I find him unlikable for the way he treats women. However, this may be seen as a modern way of writing his traits, that writers wouldn't dare to go that far in the 80's or the 90's. I do find it makes him more unlikable though. The moviefication?ultimatification of Hawkeye I don't think can be laid soley on Bendis' feet. That, IMHO, was an editorial decision.

Peace

I think Bendis did a pretty good job of making things seem pretty bleak. I mean, Hawkeye died and then was restore in an altered reality only to find out it was all a sham and then was killed again. Then when he returned, it was to a place where Captain America had died, and the Avengers as an organization had been split in two, with one half hunting down the other. That's far from just another Tuesday for the Avengers.

But even so, what you're describing is you not liking what a writer did with a character, not a writer "damaging" a character. Fraction, Hickman, Deconnick, and Spencer are the writers working on the character now. And none of them are depicting him as the man on the brink that he was for much of Bendis's run. Bendis himself had the character bounce back from his whole crisis...he left the Ronin identity behind and returned to the Avengers.

Bendis did no lasting damage to the character like you guys are claiming.

yeah, all of that. but for me, I was more offended by Clint suddenly not being a very fun character. Bendis was too busy trying to make him seem like a b@d@$$ assassin. Hawkeye showing up is supposed to shake things up for the Avengers. he's like a morale booster. even Geoff Johns, as short as his run was, understood that you bring Clint in when things aren't going well for the team. he's there to turn the tide; not wallow in it and stupidly try to kill Norman Osborn (wtf?).

he also really effed up Clint's western motif; trying to turn him into a wannabe ninja. personally, i'd rather see Clint throwing knives than carrying some curved blade. Swordsman, his teacher, carried a broadsword. he also didn't think Clint was that great with the sword. that's why he ended up an archer. and, yeah, the womanizing isn't all Bendis. but how Echo was treated was all Bendis. how Tigra was treated was all Bendis.

Again, this is all temporary stuff that you don't care for. He's not a ninja anymore, he's back to being more fun-loving although also very earnest.

What you don't like about Bendis's take on the character does not equal damage to the character.

[Willow616]

Avengers Worst Character Assassinations?- Everything Remender did on Secret Avengers to every character in it.

[replica145]

Can we include Emma Frost by Bendis? He injected her into New Avengers a couple times and it was disgraceful.

[hawkeyefan]

Avengers Worst Character Assassinations?- Everything Remender did on Secret Avengers to every character in it.

Wow, why do you say that? I suppose Ant-Man could fit in that category. Ge killed O'Grady off almost non-chalantly, and then replaced him with an LMD. Most of the other characters were okay though, no?

Can we include Emma Frost by Bendis? He injected her into New Avengers a couple times and it was disgraceful.

How about now that he's writing her regularly? I haven't read Bendis's X-Men at all yet, but lots of people seem to dig it. I didn't mind the few times he use Emma when he was writing the Avengers.

[Stars 'N Stripes]

I recall the awful fate of Carol Danvers when the Avengers were written as happily letting her go off with a guy who had used brainwashing to rape her.

Still, the worst to my mind still goes to Civil War Tony Stark. If only because it was just a years long experience in suffering.

It did lead to Carol verbally taking the team to task for their non-action in that situation.