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  1. #361
    Veteran Member stussyjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    Yes, and it's not like he hasn't given fans plenty of reasons to hate HIS WORK (try getting the differece straight).

    Peace
    He gave y'all plenty of reason to love his work. The only character he really fucked up was the scarlet witch.

  2. #362
    Scarlet Witch, My #1 =) CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stussyjones View Post
    He gave y'all plenty of reason to love his work. The only character he really fucked up was the scarlet witch.
    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    Most of these characters have been around for 40 to 50 years at this point. If writers don't try some different takes from time to time, then it would all get pretty boring, no?
    Every writer has given fans reason to love, dislike and question their work. Bendis is this way as well too. I don't hate Bendis, some of his work has indeed be good and will be fun for me to read in the Future as well. But being critical of his work also is justifiable as well.

    As Hawkeyefan said that most of these characters have been around for over half a decade, their is no way that anyone is beyond coming back. We do have to remember this is a fictional world, the writer is the judge, jury and exicutioner in the end of what goes allot of the time. So a character coming back or being redeemed is only a few penstrokes away, it is that easy.

    This is how I feel about Scarlet Witch, that she can come back just as well, may not take not as much time as others may think either. I just ask for detractors and others to give the story a chance to play itself out. I say the same thing for any character to any fan.
    "While I live... and until I die... I am an Avenger !"

    Scarlet Witch - Avengers Vol. 1 - #84

  3. #363
    A regular guy hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    Every writer has given fans reason to love, dislike and question their work. Bendis is this way as well too. I don't hate Bendis, some of his work has indeed be good and will be fun for me to read in the Future as well. But being critical of his work also is justifiable as well.

    As Hawkeyefan said that most of these characters have been around for over half a decade, their is no way that anyone is beyond coming back. We do have to remember this is a fictional world, the writer is the judge, jury and exicutioner in the end of what goes allot of the time. So a character coming back or being redeemed is only a few penstrokes away, it is that easy.

    This is how I feel about Scarlet Witch, that she can come back just as well, may not take not as much time as others may think either. I just ask for detractors and others to give the story a chance to play itself out. I say the same thing for any character to any fan.
    You raise a good point. I think these days, the biggest obstacle to a character making a comeback might actually be the fans themselves. The writers are always willing to give a character a fresh start. It has happened pretty much every time a character has gone through some kind of "dark period". Every time. But despite the writers' willingness to have a fresh start, many fans just can't let it go.

  4. #364
    Scarlet Witch, My #1 =) CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    You raise a good point. I think these days, the biggest obstacle to a character making a comeback might actually be the fans themselves. The writers are always willing to give a character a fresh start. It has happened pretty much every time a character has gone through some kind of "dark period". Every time. But despite the writers' willingness to have a fresh start, many fans just can't let it go.
    That is one of the main reasons why I fight every day Very Hard for Wanda Maximoff. I truly believe she got a raw deal of all raw deals. Now, I agree all characters go threw bad times, it happens, Iron Man during this time turned very controversial as well and I did not like that much but made for interesting stories. But Wanda, to me REALLY got racked over the coals during HoM before and after. But the main problem was that they did really no character develop for her after HoM, just had her sitting in a Rot like limbo for nearly 8 years, that seemed very extreme to me IMHO.

    But as a Fan their is nothing now I or anyone else can do about that, all you can do is support her coming back, getting Recon and Redeemed and enjoying the ride. What gets me is that is seems that some posters don't want to see this happen as well. Even the characters I like the least like Cyclops, if he was getting a Recon I would say Good luck to Him and his fans. But what I don't get is why some Posters seem to want to have Wanda stay in this bad limbo?

    In the end it is an anti-character attitude taken to an extreme that is really unnecessary for a Fictional Character. You even read what happen in the other thread today with Wanda, Rogue and Havok. It seems to be an effort to derail any Recon of Wanda, or any usage of Mutants in the Avengers period, seems most cause of the Fallout of AvX most of the time. In the end I hate to believe that, but these attitudes keep popping up, seems hard not to start to wonder.

    In the end as of this point I believe the Character Wanda has waited LONG Enough and deserves a chance to has Recon and Redemption just like I would say for any other character. That is all I am asking for, Time and a Chance, does not seem like too much to ask as Fan, I would believe not.



    Last edited by CJStriker; 01-31-2013 at 08:38 PM.
    "While I live... and until I die... I am an Avenger !"

    Scarlet Witch - Avengers Vol. 1 - #84

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by manos View Post
    So true, and at the same time thankful its over. Now he can ruin the X-men.
    hell be the best thing to happen to the xmen since Morrison. mark my words. So far All new xmen has been nothing but a home run..

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    Yeah I realize it's subjective. But when I hear words like "ruined" or "destroyed", I don't really think of them as temporary. If dinner is ruined, you son't just wait a few minutes and dig in when it's good again. If your car is destroyed, you have to get a new car.

    I think that people just get way too carried away with this whole thing. Most of these characters have been around for 40 to 50 years at this point. If writers don't try some different takes from time to time, then it would all get pretty boring, no?

    And fans get very proprietary with things, and very dismissive of other fans' views. You know how many times I heard ahit for saying I didn't hate Bendis's take on Hawkeye? And how I wasn't a real fan of the character i I disn't hate it? And how Bendis had "destroyed the character forever"? And yet now Hawkeye is starring in his own solo book, that is very character driven and arguably the best book Marcel pits out. Hard to imagine that, when the character was "destroyed forever".

    And as for Wolverine, I still like the character. Although I admit I don't read everything that he appears in monthly. The way I look at it is if I don't like how a book portrays a character, then I drop the book. I generally get my Wolverine dose through some of the team books like Avengers and the recently ended X-Force. And I'd argue that his X-Force character work was actually terrific. His "man of mystery" persona was pretty old by now, no? So I don't mind them doing something different with him.

    I just think that fans overreact way too mich with this stuff. And in this thread, while there have been plenty of good points, and it's all really a matter of opinion anyway, I just think that the term "character assassination" should just be "take on a character that I don't like".

    Nothing need be permanent in comics.

    GASP!!!! you mean characters in comics can change over time just like people in the real world...

    bite your tongue, why because so and so is written out of context...

    laughable these people are.

  7. #367
    Lawn-mowing Enthusiast EuphemismForSex's Avatar
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    I'm literally laughing out loud at that ^ right now.
    Bad news everyone...

  8. #368
    FRENCH Frank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Krunk View Post
    its because the people who say this stuff are dumb. its that simple..

    I said in another thread Bendis did more for Z list characters than just about anyone else...

    Its like when a Ms Marvel fan criticizes Bendis, you should be giving him a handjob, he did more for your character than shes seen in freaking years.
    Yea he made her boring. Doesn't mean because you use character that you use them well.
    Legato - Frank, Calm Down Your Nerd Rage!

  9. #369
    FRENCH Frank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    Yeah I realize it's subjective. But when I hear words like "ruined" or "destroyed", I don't really think of them as temporary. If dinner is ruined, you son't just wait a few minutes and dig in when it's good again. If your car is destroyed, you have to get a new car.

    I think that people just get way too carried away with this whole thing. Most of these characters have been around for 40 to 50 years at this point. If writers don't try some different takes from time to time, then it would all get pretty boring, no?

    And fans get very proprietary with things, and very dismissive of other fans' views. You know how many times I heard ahit for saying I didn't hate Bendis's take on Hawkeye? And how I wasn't a real fan of the character i I disn't hate it? And how Bendis had "destroyed the character forever"? And yet now Hawkeye is starring in his own solo book, that is very character driven and arguably the best book Marcel pits out. Hard to imagine that, when the character was "destroyed forever".

    And as for Wolverine, I still like the character. Although I admit I don't read everything that he appears in monthly. The way I look at it is if I don't like how a book portrays a character, then I drop the book. I generally get my Wolverine dose through some of the team books like Avengers and the recently ended X-Force. And I'd argue that his X-Force character work was actually terrific. His "man of mystery" persona was pretty old by now, no? So I don't mind them doing something different with him.

    I just think that fans overreact way too mich with this stuff. And in this thread, while there have been plenty of good points, and it's all really a matter of opinion anyway, I just think that the term "character assassination" should just be "take on a character that I don't like".

    Nothing need be permanent in comics.
    Hawkeye is in a good book. So what. He is still tarnished in my eyes and I have no interest in reading about him because of that. It's like you're saying nothing ever really matter of things writers do to characters. Well it does matter cause if we take it as just stupid stories that don't well it means we don't invest in what happens to them that much, so we don't care and it gives writers carte blanche to don't care either. The result is second-rate comic stories like Bendis does.
    Legato - Frank, Calm Down Your Nerd Rage!

  10. #370
    A regular guy hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    Hawkeye is in a good book. So what. He is still tarnished in my eyes and I have no interest in reading about him because of that. It's like you're saying nothing ever really matter of things writers do to characters. Well it does matter cause if we take it as just stupid stories that don't well it means we don't invest in what happens to them that much, so we don't care and it gives writers carte blanche to don't care either. The result is second-rate comic stories like Bendis does.
    He's in a great book and it's entertaining. Why deprive yourself of a rewarding reading experience because you didn't like how the character was written by another writer in another book? It makes no sense. If you don't like Bendis's take on Hawkeye or any other character, then you issue is with Bendis, not the character.

    And I wouldn't say that nothing matters that the writers do....but not everything has to matter. And that's almost always been the case, at least since Stan Lee stopped being the sole creative voice. You're choosing to not like a character instead of not liking the writer. Look at Tony Stark, for example. They made him an alcoholic at some point, and that's become an essential part of the character. That should always matter, even if it doesn't specifically come up in a story. But do they have to acknowledge that he's also been healed o his original heart condition, then shot and crippled, then healed of his paralysis, then he gained another heart condition, then he was being mind controlled all along by Kang, then he turned into a teenager, then he got thrown into a parallel reality, then came back a an adult, then got a new heart condition.....and so on. No, of course they shouldn't because then it sounds utterly ridiculous.

    Now, imagine if "Demon in a Bottle" had been written today. Imagine the reaction on the internet. Oh, they're ruining the character, and he's now tarnished and can never be a hero again, and so on. And that's all BS. The best character bits cone from a writer who takes a chance at something different. Do all those attempts work? No...but they also kind of self sort themselves, don't they? The good ones (Tony's alcoholism) stick with the character, and the bad ones (teen Tony) are quickly forgotten.

    So you choose how you feel about a character. And that's fine...it's your decision to not like Hawkeye anymore because you feel that he's tarnished. I think your just missing out on a great book, but hey, that's just my opinion. But the characters don't belon to you, to be used and written only how you like them. If they are to continue to endure, then different things have to be tried with them. So don't hate on people who like a different take than you do.

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    Yea he made her boring. Doesn't mean because you use character that you use them well.
    He made her a real important role in Marvel.

    Without her in Avengers you wouldn't have her solo title now.. She got a big push from Brian. Her fans should be happy to have her around.

  12. #372
    FRENCH Frank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Krunk View Post
    He made her a real important role in Marvel.

    Without her in Avengers you wouldn't have her solo title now.. She got a big push from Brian. Her fans should be happy to have her around.
    I don't think Carol having her own book now has anything to do with Bendis. They decided to give her a big push and Hickman also used her for his Avengers line-up.
    Legato - Frank, Calm Down Your Nerd Rage!

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    I don't think Carol having her own book now has anything to do with Bendis. They decided to give her a big push and Hickman also used her for his Avengers line-up.
    This isn't Carols first series in the past 8 years. The one from a few years back was directly because of her push in Avengers.

    Like I stated you have to give credit where credit is due. Saying Bendis tenure on New Avengers was anything but a monster success is really just BS. Marvel revolved around it for almost 10 years.

  14. #374
    Hex Magic Nemesis@'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Krunk View Post
    This isn't Carols first series in the past 8 years. The one from a few years back was directly because of her push in Avengers.

    Like I stated you have to give credit where credit is due. Saying Bendis tenure on New Avengers was anything but a monster success is really just BS. Marvel revolved around it for almost 10 years.
    No, it was not. Bendis did nothing for her. He called her fat in a bad characterization of Doom, she did play with one of the largest trauma that was the case with Marcus ..

    And she had a series in the 70s.

  15. #375
    Elder Member celticguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Krunk View Post
    GASP!!!! you mean characters in comics can change over time just like people in the real world...

    bite your tongue, why because so and so is written out of context...

    laughable these people are.
    Not if they want to please the zealouts. They cannot even have an issue of time where they act differetnly. If a character gets mad and acts out you know like people sometimes do then it is an outrage. Gofd forbid a character go through a rough patch and then reacting badly to it. That is strictly frowned on.

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