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  1. #346
    Quickkill GM DiceRoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Push You Down View Post
    There's been some pretty big knock down, drag out debates on that subject. I'm of the opinion that Hawkeye was a cold-blooded murder in the Savage Land.
    Wasn't that the one where the Skrulls didn't know they were Skrulls or something. I didn't read it but I remember debates on it.

  2. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiceRoll View Post
    Captain America, when Crossbones sniped him.
    I don't think you know what character assassination is.
    Wonder Man > Wonder Woman

    All of entertainment can be boiled down to either Sex or Death

    No amount of modern revisionism by the vocal internet minority can change the good work Bendis has done.

  3. #348
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    I think it was Hazmat's speech about her always being a hater at the begining of Avengers Arena.
    Wonder Man > Wonder Woman

    All of entertainment can be boiled down to either Sex or Death

    No amount of modern revisionism by the vocal internet minority can change the good work Bendis has done.

  4. #349
    Quickkill GM DiceRoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonage2ftw View Post
    I don't think you know what character assassination is.
    It was my lame attempt at humor. 'Cuz, y'see, Crossbones assassinated a character. Cap. With a bullet.

    ...

    *hears crickets chirping*

    I said it was lame.

  5. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiceRoll View Post
    It was my lame attempt at humor. 'Cuz, y'see, Crossbones assassinated a character. Cap. With a bullet.

    ...

    *hears crickets chirping*

    I said it was lame.
    Ah. My apoligies.
    Wonder Man > Wonder Woman

    All of entertainment can be boiled down to either Sex or Death

    No amount of modern revisionism by the vocal internet minority can change the good work Bendis has done.

  6. #351

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    Heroes Reborn had some character assassinations, Thor was a really dumbass brute in the 90s comics. The crossing was a terrible show for Ironman. However these 'events' or universes were self contained.....the fallout and damage across the larger Marvelverse was small. Let's instead look at the run Bendis had,
    Wonder Man under Bendis terrible
    Wasp under Bendis was ruined
    Thor under Bendis either non-existant or a work of comedy
    Vision under Bendis wrecked
    The Sentry under Bendis transformed from Jenkins hero into an evil killer junkie...irredeemable
    Cyclops under Bendis, Scott fights his own people, fights Avengers and kills Xavier
    Scarlet Witch under Bendis. totally DESTROYED

  7. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlwind Dinamo View Post
    Heroes Reborn had some character assassinations, Thor was a really dumbass brute in the 90s comics. The crossing was a terrible show for Ironman. However these 'events' or universes were self contained.....the fallout and damage across the larger Marvelverse was small. Let's instead look at the run Bendis had,
    Wonder Man under Bendis terrible
    Wasp under Bendis was ruined
    Thor under Bendis either non-existant or a work of comedy
    Vision under Bendis wrecked
    The Sentry under Bendis transformed from Jenkins hero into an evil killer junkie...irredeemable
    Cyclops under Bendis, Scott fights his own people, fights Avengers and kills Xavier
    Scarlet Witch under Bendis. totally DESTROYED
    So true, and at the same time thankful its over. Now he can ruin the X-men.

  8. #353
    Hex Magic Nemesis@'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlwind Dinamo View Post
    Heroes Reborn had some character assassinations, Thor was a really dumbass brute in the 90s comics. The crossing was a terrible show for Ironman. However these 'events' or universes were self contained.....the fallout and damage across the larger Marvelverse was small. Let's instead look at the run Bendis had,
    Wonder Man under Bendis terrible
    Wasp under Bendis was ruined
    Thor under Bendis either non-existant or a work of comedy
    Vision under Bendis wrecked
    The Sentry under Bendis transformed from Jenkins hero into an evil killer junkie...irredeemable
    Cyclops under Bendis, Scott fights his own people, fights Avengers and kills Xavier
    Scarlet Witch under Bendis. totally DESTROYED
    this is truth

  9. #354
    Scarlet Witch, My #1 =) CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlwind Dinamo View Post
    Heroes Reborn had some character assassinations, Thor was a really dumbass brute in the 90s comics. The crossing was a terrible show for Ironman. However these 'events' or universes were self contained.....the fallout and damage across the larger Marvelverse was small. Let's instead look at the run Bendis had,
    Wonder Man under Bendis terrible
    Wasp under Bendis was ruined
    Thor under Bendis either non-existant or a work of comedy
    Vision under Bendis wrecked
    The Sentry under Bendis transformed from Jenkins hero into an evil killer junkie...irredeemable
    Cyclops under Bendis, Scott fights his own people, fights Avengers and kills Xavier
    Scarlet Witch under Bendis. totally DESTROYED
    Quote Originally Posted by manos View Post
    So true, and at the same time thankful its over. Now he can ruin the X-men.
    Quote Originally Posted by Caio View Post
    this is truth
    I Agree with this Post by Whirlwind Dinamo completely as well. Well said, Bendis can now work his magic on the X-men, leave my Avengers (espically my Scarlet Witch) alone.
    "While I live... and until I die... I am an Avenger !"

    Scarlet Witch - Avengers Vol. 1 - #84

  10. #355
    Veteran Member stussyjones's Avatar
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    Everybody loves to hate on Bendis smh.

  11. #356
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stussyjones View Post
    Everybody loves to hate on Bendis smh.
    Yes, and it's not like he hasn't given fans plenty of reasons to hate HIS WORK (try getting the differece straight).

    Peace

  12. #357
    A regular guy hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    I love that people say characters are totally destroyed in the midst of those characters returning to prominence.

  13. #358
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    I love that people say characters are totally destroyed in the midst of those characters returning to prominence.
    The purpose of the thread has nothing to do with prominence nor with characters being destroyed, though, I guess, sometimes theses factors may all converge. Check the first exemple, the Jim Shooter Hank Pym story. It was certainly a story that defined the character, yet it also branded him negatively for all eternity.
    Plus, prominence doesn't have much to do with quality storywriting nor it's even always beneficial for the character. If you don't belive me, just look at Wolverine. The character we see nowadays, IMHO, is a joke compared to what he was in his heydays of the late 80's. Past Logan was an outsider, a loner, a mystery wrapped in an enigma. He was original, unique, authentic. Heroes all over could barely stand having him around. Yet, his appearences carried weight, were exciting and significant. Truly the best there was at what he did. The character nowadys is a done al, seen all bore. A hypocrate and a jobbing blowhard. Basically, your friendly neighbor stabby Macpsycho. Everybody's best bud, cuddly professor Logan, deathsquadroneer extraordinaire. It's hardly a character and more of a caricature. (IMHO, of course. I'm sure there are still those that dig him).
    Want another exemple of prominance not equating to good stories (and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me here, however, I can only speak for myself). Luke Cage, once proudly known as Power Man. The character probably was never so promenent as written by Bendis. Avengers leader, central figure in many events, etc... However, I can't stand Bendis version of him. It's like reading a boring, whiney, sterotypical totally different character called Duke Chain, that has a passing ressemblence to Luke Cage.
    So, yeah, IMHO, stories can provide characters with prominence and still be considered character assassinations and the ruination of certain characters. It's all in what it does for you, and that's unique to each and every reader.

    Peace
    Last edited by Nomads1; 01-31-2013 at 07:15 AM.

  14. #359
    Senior Member havok1977's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlwind Dinamo View Post
    Heroes Reborn had some character assassinations, Thor was a really dumbass brute in the 90s comics. The crossing was a terrible show for Ironman. However these 'events' or universes were self contained.....the fallout and damage across the larger Marvelverse was small. Let's instead look at the run Bendis had,
    Wonder Man under Bendis terrible
    Wasp under Bendis was ruined
    Thor under Bendis either non-existant or a work of comedy
    Vision under Bendis wrecked
    The Sentry under Bendis transformed from Jenkins hero into an evil killer junkie...irredeemable
    Cyclops under Bendis, Scott fights his own people, fights Avengers and kills Xavier
    Scarlet Witch under Bendis. totally DESTROYED
    This ^
    Bendis revels in 'shaking up' well established characters for shock value and the mark that it leaves is very deep indeed.

    Its one of the reasons I'm staying the hell away from any X book he writes, I will miss reading the main mutant titles but thankfully there's Brian Wood on a single book as a beacon of hope for that franchise.
    KingConan|Hellboy|BlackScience|EastOfWest|Fatale|L azarus|Prophet|Saga|Umbral|Velvet|Harbinger|Rai|Unity|XO
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    _ N U Avengers|Cap|DD|MK|Thor

  15. #360
    A regular guy hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    The purpose of the thread has nothing to do with prominence nor with characters being destroyed, though, I guess, sometimes theses factors may all converge. Check the first exemple, the Jim Shooter Hank Pym story. It was certainly a story that defined the character, yet it also branded him negatively for all eternity.
    Plus, prominence doesn't have much to do with quality storywriting nor it's even always beneficial for the character. If you don't belive me, just look at Wolverine. The character we see nowadays, IMHO, is a joke compared to what he was in his heydays of the late 80's. Past Logan was an outsider, a loner, a mystery wrapped in an enigma. He was original, unique, authentic. Heroes all over could barely stand having him around. Yet, his appearences carried weight, were exciting and significant. Truly the best there was at what he did. The character nowadys is a done al, seen all bore. A hypocrate and a jobbing blowhard. Basically, your friendly neighbor stabby Macpsycho. Everybody's best bud, cuddly professor Logan, deathsquadroneer extraordinaire. It's hardly a character and more of a caricature. (IMHO, of course. I'm sure there are still those that dig him).
    Want another exemple of prominance not equating to good stories (and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me here, however, I can only speak for myself). Luke Cage, once proudly known as Power Man. The character probably was never so promenent as written by Bendis. Avengers leader, central figure in many events, etc... However, I can't stand Bendis version of him. It's like reading a boring, whiney, sterotypical totally different character called Duke Chain, that has a passing ressemblence to Luke Cage.
    So, yeah, IMHO, stories can provide characters with prominence and still be considered character assassinations and the ruination of certain characters. It's all in what it does for you, and that's unique to each and every reader.

    Peace
    Yeah I realize it's subjective. But when I hear words like "ruined" or "destroyed", I don't really think of them as temporary. If dinner is ruined, you son't just wait a few minutes and dig in when it's good again. If your car is destroyed, you have to get a new car.

    I think that people just get way too carried away with this whole thing. Most of these characters have been around for 40 to 50 years at this point. If writers don't try some different takes from time to time, then it would all get pretty boring, no?

    And fans get very proprietary with things, and very dismissive of other fans' views. You know how many times I heard ahit for saying I didn't hate Bendis's take on Hawkeye? And how I wasn't a real fan of the character i I disn't hate it? And how Bendis had "destroyed the character forever"? And yet now Hawkeye is starring in his own solo book, that is very character driven and arguably the best book Marcel pits out. Hard to imagine that, when the character was "destroyed forever".

    And as for Wolverine, I still like the character. Although I admit I don't read everything that he appears in monthly. The way I look at it is if I don't like how a book portrays a character, then I drop the book. I generally get my Wolverine dose through some of the team books like Avengers and the recently ended X-Force. And I'd argue that his X-Force character work was actually terrific. His "man of mystery" persona was pretty old by now, no? So I don't mind them doing something different with him.

    I just think that fans overreact way too mich with this stuff. And in this thread, while there have been plenty of good points, and it's all really a matter of opinion anyway, I just think that the term "character assassination" should just be "take on a character that I don't like".

    Nothing need be permanent in comics.

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