Is "Batman Returns" Misunderstood?

[flamemasterelan]

he wanted to punish the parents of Gotham because his parents abandoned him. he was insane, so his plan doesn't really need to make proper logical sense, either.

Actually, it was just thrown into the plot because the writers couldn't think of anything better to do. It was apparently either that, or Penguin tries to freeze all of Gotham. They didn't really come up with a proper story arc for Penguin, and needed something "world threatening" for the climax, so that had to do.

[Greg Anderson]

Of the original series, it's my favorite. I've rewatched it more than any other superhero/comic book film. It's visually fantastic to look at, and Catwoman's costume is a huge factor. It's very well made and Michelle's performance was top notch. Burton's Catwoman is definitely my favorite Batman movie character ever. Also, the strange look, mood, tone, overall strange and weird film really makes it pop.

While I have a huge love for the film, I definitely can see why some fans aren't into it. For one, Catwoman/Selina Kyle was only in name only. She shared nothing similar to the original character of the books, same as Penguin. Catwoman in the film was a deranged zombie who's every line was some sort of sexual innuendo. But hot damn wasn't she fun and awesome and insanely bad-ass.

[speedline]

I understood it completely as a 12 year old. M-E-O-W

[the goddamn batman]

Agreed. Visually she's one of the most terrific Batman movie villains. I don't mean sexually, either, though there is that, too. She's pith perfect for me, despite having no similarities to her comic counterpart.

Flamemaster, I am aware of their lack of 'master plan' but that doesn't change his motivation once they settled on one.

[Kensei]

Comparing Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman to Anne Hathaway's, both of which I find superb: I think Anne played Selina with a steady, quiet confidence in her own ability as an actress, while Michelle seemed to bend over backwards at every turn to play it to its ultimate extreme potential. Anne must have been very aware that she was stepping into Heath Ledger's shoes and that her performance would be compared to his, and while I don't think that intimidated her it had to have been some kind of factor. Michelle on the other hand seems to have just wanted to have as much fun as she possibly could and play Selina as a repressed woman who went through an extreme and possibly supernatural change that pushed her to the brink of sexed-up, vengeful insanity. Watching her act that out is an exciting roller coaster ride.

[JensenAdams]

I read a good dissection of the film a few years ago and I fully concurred with it so I'll give the gist of it. Basically, it argued that Batman was a comic book movie whereas Batman Returns was a TIM BURTON movie. It was full on, unapologetic Tim Burton-ian...the overuse of snow, the permanent blue hue 'tone' of the movie, the outlandish Catwoman costume, the music...it was all Tim Burton in your face.

I won't say BR is not a GOOD movie it's just not a very enjoyable one. It's very nihilistic and starts and ends on a depressing tone.

[The Bat-Man]

Actually, it was just thrown into the plot because the writers couldn't think of anything better to do. It was apparently either that, or Penguin tries to freeze all of Gotham. They didn't really come up with a proper story arc for Penguin, and needed something "world threatening" for the climax, so that had to do.

Actually, the writer, Daniel Waters, from the start had centered the plot around the Penguin's revenge on society, which he had been rejected from, and that is what had gotten Tim Burton interested in the Penguin. Warner had wanted the Penguin, but Tim Burton wasn't interested in that character because the Penguin had been a very silly character before, but Daniel Waters introduced ideas for expanding the Penguin to become a deformed freak who is both sympathetic and grotesque and seeking revenge on the society that had shunned him for being born deformed. That was a proper story for that expansion of the Penguin. They didn't need something world threatening, just threatening to Gotham. The Joker didn't do anything world threatening with his poisoning in the first movie, either, just threatening to Gotham. Batman's villains plans usually are centered on Gotham City and Batman, not the world (except for Ra's).

[Dr. Hurt]

It wasnt a Batman movie, but more of a "Burton goes crazy with gothic and dark for the sake of it" movie. Just like B&R was Schumacher overload whereas BF was more moderate in its Schumacherness.

[Auguste Dupin]

It wasnt a Batman movie, but more of a "Burton goes crazy with gothic and dark for the sake of it" movie. Just like B&R was Schumacher overload whereas BF was more moderate in its Schumacherness.

Yeah, but that's sort of what makes it interesting in the first place, and what's keeping it from feeling horribly dated, like the original. It's "Batman meets Tim Burton's gothicness", the same way The Dark Knight is "Batman meets Christopher Nolan uber realism and post 9 11 parallels ". Both are a creator's take on an established character, that's what make them "real" movies, instead of commercial rides like Batman Forever or the original Batman, heck, even Begins to a lesser extend. Batman isn't exagerated gothicness, true, but it's not really this realisitc Heat like movie that Christopher Nolan turned it into either. It's both.
The ability to tell two stories who are so different, with two takes so alike from one another, is exactly what makes Batman a great character.

[Jim Thompson]

Yeah, but that's sort of what makes it interesting in the first place, and what's keeping it from feeling horribly dated, like the original. It's "Batman meets Tim Burton's gothicness"...

Which is exactly what a lot of people who say they didn't like the Nolan films point to as an element that needs to return, that more closed in, darker, Gothic type Gotham City.

The ability to tell two stories who are so different, with two takes so alike from one another, is exactly what makes Batman a great character.

Very, very much agreed.

[Dr. Hurt]

Yeah, but that's sort of what makes it interesting in the first place, and what's keeping it from feeling horribly dated, like the original. It's "Batman meets Tim Burton's gothicness", the same way The Dark Knight is "Batman meets Christopher Nolan uber realism and post 9 11 parallels ". Both are a creator's take on an established character, that's what make them "real" movies, instead of commercial rides like Batman Forever or the original Batman, heck, even Begins to a lesser extend. Batman isn't exagerated gothicness, true, but it's not really this realisitc Heat like movie that Christopher Nolan turned it into either. It's both.
The ability to tell two stories who are so different, with two takes so alike from one another, is exactly what makes Batman a great character.

I guess that's true. But i personally didnt like it because i felt like Burton was indulging himself. Even as a kid i didnt enjoy this. That's just me though.

[Bob Fett]

What turned me off was the fact that is was shot all in studio.You saw the same streets and buildings over and over again.Going in to a Burton film you have to expect eccentric,and or odd characters.I'm glad they changed the bat oval though.

[Auguste Dupin]

I guess that's true. But i personally didnt like it because i felt like Burton was indulging himself. Even as a kid i didnt enjoy this. That's just me though.

Heh, actually, it was my least favorite as a kid because it scared the sh.t out of me. I remember , during one of my viewings, during the passage where he makes his tv speech about how he was like any other kid but (shows his hands) "with this as a difference", I actually cried because at this point, I really realised he has been abandonned by his parents (I was young). It was such a frigntening idea that I just couldn't take it and I stopped watching the tape, but somehow, it putted into my mind that there was more to this film that I gave it credit for. And, a few years later, I watched it again and pretty much loved it.

[ForeverYoung8]

I love 'Returns'. In fact, I think it's every bit as good as 'The Dark Knight'.

My favorite aspect is how it is basically 'A Christmas Carol', starring Batman; something that I think was done much better in 'Returns' than it was in last years 'Noel'.

[jesse_custer]

I won't say BR is not a GOOD movie it's just not a very enjoyable one. It's very nihilistic and starts and ends on a depressing tone.

No, it doesn't. Someone quoted the final line, and it's actually not nihilistic at all. Unlike The Dark Knight.