Should Green Lantern Replace WW in Trinity?

[HXHAlex]

Hal is above the trinity

He should be the face of DC

:p

[[Trigger]]

I always found the concept of the "Trinity" in DC to be the most force fed thing in the last 10-15 years concerning DC. It's like saying "no matter how good the other books are we will still force feed you an event that has to do with these 3"

Batman and Supes as "World's Finest" goes way back as a concept but the Trinity is something DC and mainly DD tried to force feed to the DC fans, and sadly it stuck around as something essential to the DCU (which is retarded). 52, Blackest Night, Brightest Day and Flashpoint already proved that the "Trinity" IS NOT ESSENTIAL IN THE LEAST.

It bothers me because before the Trinity there were the Magnificent 7, or Core 7 or the True Justice League (Supes, Bats, WW, GL, Flash, AQ, MM) and it worked to perfection.
Morisson's and Waid's JLA is a testament to that dynamic.

The Trinity (LOL)? Not so much. Infinite Crisis revolved around the Trinity and was mediocre at best. The Trinity series while better than Countdown (it's Countdown after all) was again an average series and success, while trying to hard to promote the idea of the Trinity.

So from a story perspective the Trinity actualy historicaly FAILS, in contrast to the Core 7 project that actually works (Morisson's JLA, Classic JLA, John's JLA, etc)

So I actualy find the whole Trinity concept quite offensive to the rest of DC's main characters (GL, Fash and AQ at least) and hope DC doesn't go that way again.

My favorite character is AQ but any "Trinity" in the DCU even if it had AQ in it, is a very bad idea as it's previous success (or lack thereoff) has already proven.

And now DC is gearing up for the "Trinity War". I'm guessing some sort of schism between Supes, Bats and WW, with the other heroes taking sides.
WHY? Why does it have to be these 3 OVERDONE characters again? Why can't it be GL,FLash and AQ who cause the schism and the other 3 have to choose sides?

Supes had a boatload of events, same goes for Bats and WW just doesn't seem to work (War of the Gods, Amazons Attack, protagonist of Infinite Crisis).

So I couldn't care less about the Trinity, as it is in essence a slap to the face of anyone who is not a major fan of these 3 characters.

As for GL replacing WW. If DC sticks with the "Trinity" concept, I say go for it. I always found the original Trinity quite borring so Hal instead of Diana can only get better.

And as for WW being published constantly, isn't there something concernig the rights of the character? That DC will lose the rights to WW if she is not constantly published? Because if we go by sales her book should be canceled some times in the past. I mean Power Girl was outselling her at one point, yet her book was canned.

Anyway Trinity as a concept sucks (IMO)

It's essentially because those 3 are the best of the best in DC. Whether or not their stories are interesting or not, Superman is the strongest male, Wonderwoman the female, and Batman is essential the greatest mortal superhero.

[comicfan11]

And that is still quite offensive to all the other characters, since there are instances were Superman, WW or Batman are outclassedi n certain stories, where as the others save the day.

So even if GL saves the day in Blackest Night or Flash in Flashpoint, why do we have to consider Supes, WW and Bats on a higher level constantly?

[Deviates]

And that is still quite offensive to all the other characters, since there are instances were Superman, WW or Batman are outclassedi n certain stories, where as the others save the day.

So even if GL saves the day in Blackest Night or Flash in Flashpoint, why do we have to consider Supes, WW and Bats on a higher level constantly?

Well Superman is probably the one hero that all other heroes look up to, the ol' 'Boy Scout' mentality and knowing what the right thing to do is. Wonder Woman is there because she's the biggest female lead in the DCU. Batman is thrown in because to compensate for his lack of powers within a JLA/JL context he's been given a near superhuman intellect and he's now one of the smartest people (powered on not) in the DCU.

[comicfan11]

So in other words no matter how well is the execution in any other book in DC or the sales for that matter, no character is allowed to reach the status of those three.
No other hero can be shown "Out inspiring Supes", no other mere mortal can never "out achieve" Bats or no other female hero can ever "out Wonder Woman" WW?

If it's all set in stone and so borringly predictable, what's the point of even having other heroes? Do they exist to just fall under the category "hey GL is awsome and his books the last 10 years are way better than Supes or WW's but hey the Trinity rules (FALSE), so GL is still B-List"?

Why can't the concept of the Trinity change BASED ON WHAT THE CHARACTERS ACTUALLY DO and not based what they ONCE DID?

[[Trigger]]

So in other words no matter how well is the execution in any other book in DC or the sales for that matter, no character is allowed to reach the status of those three.
No other hero can be shown "Out inspiring Supes", no other mere mortal can never "out achieve" Bats or no other female hero can ever "out Wonder Woman" WW?

If it's all set in stone and so borringly predictable, what's the point of even having other heroes? Do they exist to just fall under the category "hey GL is awsome and his books the last 10 years are way better than Supes or WW's but hey the Trinity rules (FALSE), so GL is still B-List"?

Why can't the concept of the Trinity change BASED ON WHAT THE CHARACTERS ACTUALLY DO and not based what they ONCE DID?

The fact they haven't left Superman or Batman dead should answer your question. Super will always be THE superhero for DC and Batman will always be THE mortal and Wonderman THE woman of DC. DC is not much for status quo change unless it's a temporary publicity stunt.

[Deviates]

So in other words no matter how well is the execution in any other book in DC or the sales for that matter, no character is allowed to reach the status of those three.
No other hero can be shown "Out inspiring Supes", no other mere mortal can never "out achieve" Bats or no other female hero can ever "out Wonder Woman" WW?

If it's all set in stone and so borringly predictable, what's the point of even having other heroes? Do they exist to just fall under the category "hey GL is awsome and his books the last 10 years are way better than Supes or WW's but hey the Trinity rules (FALSE), so GL is still B-List"?

Why can't the concept of the Trinity change BASED ON WHAT THE CHARACTERS ACTUALLY DO and not based what they ONCE DID?

Nobody is saying a character can't out inspire Superman or any of the other examples you put and it isn't set in stone but those three characters have become the most iconic that DC has so they'll obvious have that 'Trinity association'. I don't get the issue personally, I'm a bigger GL fan than I am a supes, Batman or WW fan but I couldn't care less how they are perceived by others, when it comes down to the stories, it is a case by case basis as to who is the inpsiring figure, who is the achiever or who is the female lead.

Being the moral compass of humanity is part of who Superman is so you can't take that away, but you can allow others to act as it in stories and it happens all the time. Batman's intellect is essentially his super power so that's a given but he's also the most recongisable hero around - he'll always be there like it or not but that doesn't mean other people can't be the brains in the story. Rinse/repeat for WW.

[comicfan11]

I understand that.

It doesn't mean it's right, clever or not offensive to all the other DC characters.
It doesn't mean that these characters are perfect in everything compared to all the other characters.
Heck it doesn't even mean these characters are actually better than many other characters.

It just means that DC doesn't actually care or intends to care about their other characters as much as their favorite pets, and fans of all the other characters be damned.

What amazes me is that most DC fans are actually offended if you suggest that the whole Trinity concept is one of the most historically offensive concepts to their fans.

And although I'm a DC fan through and through DC sucks in this aspect compared to Marvel. At least they don't constantly force the same tired old horses to their fans. Major example characters like Luke Cage (I know he is Bendis's pet, but stil), Herc or the whole "Dark Reign" thing.

To sum up I can get behind the concept of a Trinity which changes depending on the stories.

So if a story is in space for example, the Trinity for that time period would be more logical to be Supes, GL and MM for example.

[Deviates]

I understand that.

It doesn't mean it's right, clever or not offensive to all the other DC characters.
It doesn't mean that these characters are perfect in everything compared to all the other characters.
Heck it doesn't even mean these characters are actually better than many other characters.

It just means that DC doesn't actually care or intends to care about their other characters as much as their favorite pets, and fans of all the other characters be damned.

What amazes me is that most DC fans are actually offended if you suggest that the whole Trinity concept is one of the most historically offensive concepts to their fans.

And although I'm a DC fan through and through DC sucks in this aspect compared to Marvel. At least they don't constantly force the same tired old horses to their fans. Major example characters like Luke Cage (I know he is Bendis's pet, but stil), Herc or the whole "Dark Reign" thing.

To sum up I can get behind the concept of a Trinity which changes depending on the stories.

So if a story is in space for example, the Trinity for that time period would be more logical to be Supes, GL and MM for example.

Where has the the concept of 'Trinity' been offensive to other characters (I'm not entirely sure how you offend fictional characters, but whatever), in the New 52 or before? If anything it's a marketing tool, less a feature of stories - except for maybe the book 'Trinity' but that's just a team up of Supes, Batman and WW.

You are taking this Trinity concept far too literally, if there were a story in space then of course GL would be one of the heavily involved characters.

[comicfan11]

It all boils down to the practical application of the "Trinity" concept.

The whole point is that by being part of the "Trinity" said characters will always get top billing, more screen time and more events when compared to other characters.

That means that when an event is called "Trinity War" we will still be treated to far more pages showing us how amazing these OVERDONE characters are and have more screen time and story about them when compared to the other characters (and that has already happened with events like Infinite Crisis, Trinity etc). So you can be an AQ or Flash fan and buy Trinity War, but you already know that they will play second fiddle to the Trinity.

Every time there is an event in DC you can bet that these 3 will overshadow all the others (the exception is Blackest Nnight and Flashpoint but that was due to Johnns being CCO mostly IMO)

If the Trinity concept would change every time according to the stories, that would be LOGICAL and RIGHT.

But when these 3 characters are guaranteed to overshadow all the others, just because they are the Trinity, and most of the events revolve around them, why should a fan of the other characters not be offended by the whole Trinity concept?

That's my whole point, by aknowledging a never changing Trinity, you give a free pass at top billing to these 3 evey time something happens in the DCU. And that's the problem. They don't constantly earn it. They just happen to be created before most of the other characters and it doesn't matter if they didn't have a good story in ages (which was the case for Supes and WW for a good amount of time). They are just a very old stereotype engraved to people's mind.

[The Darknight Detective]

Fun fact - Green Arrow and Aquaman have also been published continuously since their debut (not with a title of course).

But not the same person, though, correct?

[The Darknight Detective]

So in other words no matter how well is the execution in any other book in DC or the sales for that matter, no character is allowed to reach the status of those three.
No other hero can be shown "Out inspiring Supes", no other mere mortal can never "out achieve" Bats or no other female hero can ever "out Wonder Woman" WW?

I think another character(s) could reach their level, but not succeed it, unless one of the Trinity became so unpopular that it didn't make sense to keep them anymore. I don't foresee the latter ever happening, though.

[blinker]

But not the same person, though, correct?

Hey now, Batman hasn't always been Bruce Wayne.

[comicfan11]

Green Lantern constantly outsells WW and in many cases Superman for the last 10 years or so.
GL also had a movie whereas WW didn't. In fact her TV Pilot was flat out atrocious and didn't even get picked up.
GL's event was waaaaaay better than WW's and Superman's (and was both a critical and financial success for DC)
GL has 3 titles under his banner, WW has 1 and Superman has 2.

So going by this logic (which I also find flawed) GL is the only logical choice for the Trinity.
But still WW is in the Trinity whereas GL is not.
Meaning GL is still regarded as less important by DC.

The Trinity also has no logical application in DCU.

Normal citizen would regard Superman (powerhouse), GL (ring that can do anything) and Flash (Speed of light) as their most important heroes since Batman is just a man in a suit (compared to the others) and WW is just a berserker with super strength and (maybe) flight.
So especially in a Comic Universe the current Trinity make's even less sense.

Anyway maybe I'm just tired of DC promoting a concept that is flat out wrong on every conceivable level in expense of some far better story potential. I just find the "Live or Die by the Trinity being more important than all our other heroes" logic disgusting. I hope DC proves me wrong. They haven't so far. The next major event is already called Trinity War.

I just wonder if we will ever see an event where the "Trinity" royally messes things up and it's up to the "lesser heroes" like GL, Flash, AQ, GA, Hawkman etc to save the day. I hope we will.

Make mine Trini... DC.

Peace

[[Trigger]]

Superman, Batman and Wonderwoman are pretty much DC's mascots. It would not be great from a marketing standpoint if they made other superheroes be better than their mascots. Superman has even been part of their logo at one point, same with Spider-man and Marvel.