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  1. #121
    Gamebreaker Wellman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinned2007 View Post
    Anyone notice that the answer to the first question left the door widely open for another relaunch/renumbering within 2 years?
    This is Marvel, there is no doubt that within 2-3 years, they are going to relaunch/renumbder a few of there books. It has been that way for the past decade especially.

  2. #122
    Pure Hellcatnip Lady_Alternate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-el View Post
    I'm giving away my age here but yes I did read the original Lee/Kirby FF back in the day. I took one look at your comment and knew immediately that you need to see two pages from FF#11. Your comment is addressed by the eminent authorities on the subjects - Reed Richards and Benjamin J Grimm.
    Nothing new under the sun, really.
    While no doubt well intentioned, that page is horribly, horribly patriarchal.
    Women are beautiful. But we're not here for your goddamn titillation.- junesdisco

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuhollandDriver View Post
    I love the intelligence and ideas in all of your posts, Hrist. I just you should know!
    Well, I'm glad someone does :) I don't mean to be overly critical, but this is something I really care about as a fan. Before the relaunch I thought DC's better success with female characters was due mostly to their lower cancellation threshold and the strength of the Batbrand. After the Nu52, though… well, what DCWKA points out is true. The conventional wisdom is becoming less that female leads don't sell genre comics, but that they don't sell genre comics for Marvel.

  4. #124
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    I think everyone gets that something happens to Cable which causes him to lose an eye, Axel. The better question is why does he wear a patch instead of just putting in a bionic replacement. After all, if he can replace an arm with a futuristic bionic one why not an eye?

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    I think everyone gets that something happens to Cable which causes him to lose an eye, Axel. The better question is why does he wear a patch instead of just putting in a bionic replacement. After all, if he can replace an arm with a futuristic bionic one why not an eye?
    Cause eyepatches are so hardcore. Depth perception is for pussies.

  6. #126
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Ha. Most likely that is the honest truth behind it, and nothing more. "It looks hardcore."

  7. #127
    Veteran Member SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songbird/Diamondback View Post
    LESS MOCKINGBIRD?! Boooooo!
    I'm not too happy about that either, but super surprised my question even got picked!!! First time for everything I guess...

    The prognosis for Wonder Man, Dr. Strange and Colossus was a little better. I'll take 3/4!

  8. #128
    Senior Member protege's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    Cause eyepatches are so hardcore. Depth perception is for pussies.
    Look at how well it's working for Fury jr.

  9. #129
    Part-Time Sith Joe Acro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    After all, if he can replace an arm with a futuristic bionic one why not an eye?
    He replaced his arm with a bionic one from the future?

  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_Alternate View Post
    While no doubt well intentioned, that page is horribly, horribly patriarchal.
    That's fair but American society in the previous decade had a strong patriarchal element. You asked before if Marvel's treatment of women in those days was considered sexist and the short answer is that the very concept of something being sexist and not "just the way things are" was just beginning to gain some traction. The concern would have been more about the competency of Marvel female superheroes.

    Sue's response to those mean, nasty letters is simply ridiculous but the answer that she was the deciding factor in some adventures within the first dozen issues said that fans wanted and the creators intended to give them female characters that could play on a level field with the men. The results were uneven. Natasha was usually competent. Wasp and Scarlet Witch varied with the story. Jean Grey tended to collapse anytime she had to push beyond normal exertions. Medusa was a strong personality standing up to Gorgon early on. Crystal was less her own woman, being Johnny's girlfriend, but could beat the Wizard, a respectable villain at the time, all by herself.

  11. #131
    Astounding Super Bird chariset's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-el View Post
    That's fair but American society in the previous decade had a strong patriarchal element. You asked before if Marvel's treatment of women in those days was considered sexist and the short answer is that the very concept of something being sexist and not "just the way things are" was just beginning to gain some traction.
    What's patriarchal about that (and I'm a girl too), is firstly that Susan is in weeping hysterics over letters and needs her men to defend her; and secondly the lead-off to the argument is "being a wife/mother is heroic too." I've seen that argument a lot in 1960s stories, and while it's innocuous on the surface, what it amounts to is "Women, the best you can do is be moral and strong in support of your husband and children."

    It was probably fair for its day, but it could have just said "She's a hero and a full member of the team -- get used to it."

  12. #132
    Senior Member okpanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasx View Post
    Yeah I'm looking forward to a new BP series, and why is Marvel so afraid to do horror?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wellman View Post
    It is an admission of them not even trying, when the Editor in Chief pulls out mini series that main hooks are one of Marvel's most popular characters killing the rest (one in a cosmic setting that he compares to Buck Rogers in the same explanation) as an example of such. Pretty much kills any hope I have for something decent along the lines of good psychological or dark horror unless some bright editor sneaks a mini into the schedule.
    In the last 1-2 years Marvel tried their hand at launching Doctor Voodoo: Avenger Of The Supernatural and a new Ghost Rider monthly, with both being cancelled. You can't say they're not trying.

    The parade of Marvel Zombies series have continued to be somewhat successful at least, I'm assuming by the fact they keep on doing them.

    In the meantime, there's the great Infernal Man-Thing mini.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    Hardly. Marvel's track record for female titles and characters suxs. And that doesn't have to be the result of an 'agenda,' any more than the attitude of fans toward women is part of an 'agenda.' It's more an environment that, sadly, many seem happy with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin King View Post
    apparently not. Given that Rucka excels at, and enjoys writing, female centred books and Marvel is hellbent on having as few female solo ongoings as possible, they've nothing for him. As a result, he's off to creator-owned for the time being.
    From recent memory, here's some female lead comics that got the axe in the last few years:

    Spider-Woman
    Spider-Girl
    Ms Marvel
    Multiple She-Hulk runs
    X23

    And in between all of that was Marvel Divas (heh).

    I think the direction and effort they've put into the new Captain Marvel is very positive. It says to me they want to make her a key fixture in their roster of characters, maybe their answer to Wonder Woman or something.
    Other than that it's true there's not many other examples of females taking key positions of importance in current books, but there's been X-Men Legacy which may as well be called "Rogue and Friends".


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiolino View Post
    He also didn't answer my question about Kitty Pryde, a character he himself said had big things coming in 2012, but has been all but completely absent from even the book she is supposed to be big in.
    She's been pretty front and center in Wolverine and The X-Men, I wouldn't call that "completely absent".


    Quote Originally Posted by Hrist View Post
    One of the problems with female leads is that Marvel can only seem to have one book or two of them going at a time (and sometimes not even that!) usually with a newer, unproven creative team and a generally B-list marketing approach.
    I thought Captain Marvel was pushed really well, actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Songbird/Diamondback View Post
    You know what gets to me the most? Marvel kept going on and on about how they can't advertise certain characters, yet they're doing this huge, HUGE push for Guardians of the Galaxy, a book that failed just like many others. Sure, it was a good series and had a cult following. But so did so many other books.
    But no, THAT is the series that the movies people pick and that's the series that will probably be defining events for the next few years.

    I tell yeah, it's just downright annoying.
    There's only so many gambles you can take at one time. This may be annoying to you because your corner of preference may be getting ignored, but what about all of the Marvel Cosmic fans who had to wait so long that part of the MU to get attention again? Good for them, I say. Plus GotG are great characters and deserve the push.
    Next time, it'll be somebody else's turn.

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrist View Post
    Well, I'm glad someone does :) I don't mean to be overly critical, but this is something I really care about as a fan. Before the relaunch I thought DC's better success with female characters was due mostly to their lower cancellation threshold and the strength of the Batbrand. After the Nu52, though… well, what DCWKA points out is true. The conventional wisdom is becoming less that female leads don't sell genre comics, but that they don't sell genre comics for Marvel.
    You are always intelligent and polite about it, so no worries!

    As for Captain Marvel, I think it is great news that it sold out. However, what really matters is how it performs long-term. There have been many series that "sold out" the first issue or arc, only to quickly drop.

    The response to the first issue, from both readers and critics, seems mixed. It would have been great if people were completely "wowed" with it like they were with Wonder Woman #1, Batwoman or Hawkeye. Nonetheless, I enjoyed it enough to see what happens in the first arc!
    Nanny: The True Phoenix Egg

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by okpanic View Post
    There's only so many gambles you can take at one time. This may be annoying to you because your corner of preference may be getting ignored, but what about all of the Marvel Cosmic fans who had to wait so long that part of the MU to get attention again? Good for them, I say. Plus GotG are great characters and deserve the push.
    Next time, it'll be somebody else's turn.
    I hope so. It's still just seems like that whole GOTG group think that's the only one to push. I'm just saying, if Iron Fist or Nova is their next film, I'm calling shenanigans. (Iron Fist fans and Cosmic fans go hand in hand).

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuhollandDriver View Post
    You are always intelligent and polite about it, so no worries!

    As for Captain Marvel, I think it is great news that it sold out. However, what really matters is how it performs long-term. There have been many series that "sold out" the first issue or arc, only to quickly drop.

    The response to the first issue, from both readers and critics, seems mixed. It would have been great if people were completely "wowed" with it like they were with Wonder Woman #1, Batwoman or Hawkeye. Nonetheless, I enjoyed it enough to see what happens in the first arc!
    Of course, but we can't advertise how the book is going to do "long term". To say that something isn't doing well NOW because it might not be doing well someday in the future is hardly a tough prediction, it's the natural trend we're always trying to buck. Getting a good start matters. Momentum matters.

    In the end though, its not really a concern of the readers, it's a concern for people working on the book. You're paying for the issue you're buying right now, not the one a year from now. You'd be a happier reader not sweating the business stuff.

    Also, not sure if anyone's noticed, but everything on earth gets "mixed reviews" in this day and age solely because everyone's voice can be heard and the universal desire to be contrary and stand apart. Show me a good Daredevil review, I'll show you someone who thinks we're doing it all wrong.

    SW

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