Ultimate Wolverine could still be alive with this loop hole.

**_Pandora_** · 08-06-2012, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by wyokid

That timeline was erased.

Angel died in Ultimatum.

I guess that would explain Mr. Sinister & Apokolypse & what not for them. But.....

So then that would mean Bishop really is alive then. The younger one of course is alive. But even the older one could be too? In fact that would mean for the younger one anyways...he could do whatever he wanted, and he would never have to time travel at any point to the past, and die at the hands of Wolverine. So any writer is free to do whatever with Bishop with no restrictions.

**MrV** · 08-06-2012, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by _Pandora_

I guess that would explain Mr. Sinister & Apokolypse & what not for them. But.....

So then that would mean Bishop really is alive then. The younger one of course is alive. But even the older one could be too?

The younger Bishop will grow into the old one since the older Bishop talked to his younger self to convince himself to be a better person.

In all honesty, I HATED the time travel from Ultimate X-Men. It ignored the rules established in Ultimate Fantastic Four: President Thor.

If a time traveler from any time, touched his counterpart of another timeline, this would make the Time-Spiders/Argiopes go devour the time traveler to prevent the universe from collapsing. Yet, Cable fought his past self and no Argiopes showed up to eat him.

I hate inconsistency in comics.

**CaptainMarvell** · 08-06-2012, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by MrV

The younger Bishop will grow into the old one since the older Bishop talked to his younger self to convince himself to be a better person.

In all honesty, I HATED the time travel from Ultimate X-Men. It ignored the rules established in Ultimate Fantastic Four: President Thor.

If a time traveler from any time, touched his counterpart of another timeline, this would make the Time-Spiders/Argiopes go devour the time traveler to prevent the universe from collapsing. Yet, Cable fought his past self and no Argiopes showed up to eat him.

I hate inconsistency in comics.

Unless Cable is from an alternate universe. Kind of like in Days of Future Past when Shadowcat went back in time and changed things, but when she went back to her future, it was still the same. Basically, if you go back in time and change something, all you do is create an alternate reality. Your timeline remains intact. You can't change your present by altering the past. There was an issue of F4 (in 616) that explained that.

**Trallis** · 08-06-2012, 07:50 AM

I don't even mind characters coming back to life in 616. It's practically a comic book tradition and it's part of the fun of reading a story that's been going on since the 60s.. But in the UU, it's unacceptable because it's one of the things that makes it unique.

Finding a loophole to bring a character back is the exact type of thing the UU isn't supposed to do. Like I said before, a character resurrection in a good story shouldn't be considered out of line as long as it's a remarkable event. The entire problem with "comic book death" and resurrection has always been that the writer found a loophole to bring a character back when that was not the original intention of the story. The reader can tell the difference. Like when Mysterio died in 616, and came back years later, people knew that Kevin Smith didn't secretly intend for Mysterio to be faking his death

**The Master Meglomaniac** · 08-06-2012, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Trallis

I don't even mind characters coming back to life in 616. It's practically a comic book tradition and it's part of the fun of reading a story that's been going on since the 60s.. But in the UU, it's unacceptable because it's one of the things that makes it unique.

Finding a loophole to bring a character back is the exact type of thing the UU isn't supposed to do. Like I said before, a character resurrection in a good story shouldn't be considered out of line as long as it's a remarkable event. The entire problem with "comic book death" and resurrection has always been that the writer found a loophole to bring a character back when that was not the original intention of the story. The reader can tell the difference. Like when Mysterio died in 616, and came back years later, people knew that Kevin Smith didn't secretly intend for Mysterio to be faking his death

The problem is when a death is not well written, the audience has no problem having that death overturned. If a death is really well done, the audience is more likely not to want be overturned. Frankly pretty well all the deaths in Ultimatum are horribly written, so the writers and audience have no reason to respect those deaths, Wasp's death in particular came off as disrespectful to the character. So the deaths are not well written in the first place, why shouldn't the writer overturn it? If a character goes out like a punk, then people feel cheated, if the character goes out like a bad ass, then people feel like they have gotten their money's worth, the character got a good exit.

I think the UU has habit of killing off characters way too quickly. Look at Ultimate Sebastian Shaw, they killed him within a few issues of his intro, there could have been a ton stories they could have done with him, but instead he died within a few issues, what a waste.

**BrotherUnitNo_4** · 08-06-2012, 09:04 AM

The guy's power is suggested by Nick Fury to be survival. I say he could very well be alive.

**Wellman** · 08-06-2012, 10:33 AM

Honestly, there is too much of Wolverine right now in the 616, I'd rather if anyone in the Ultimate universe stay dead, it be Wolverine.

They can clone a Ultimate X-23 however.

**CaptainMarvell** · 08-06-2012, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Wellman

Honestly, there is too much of Wolverine right now in the 616, I'd rather if anyone in the Ultimate universe stay dead, it be Wolverine.

They can clone a Ultimate X-23 however.

Isn't that what Jimmy is? A teenage Wolverine clone?

**atlasjj** · 08-06-2012, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by _Pandora_

With all of this talk about UU currently not bringing characters back to life...and someone said that the UU hasn't brought any characters back to life since the Death of Spider-Man...I have one question...

Didn't Apokolypse & Mr. Sinister die in Ultimate X-Men some years ago. I believe that happened around the time Wolverine/Cable was in the book. So doesn't that mean Mr. Sinister & Apokolypse were brought back to life recently?

Also on a side note: I believe I read that Angel died in the sewers of NYC while Wolverine & his gang of X-Men were running away from Mr. Sinister. Then Angel cam back to life later. So you can add Angel to the list too.

What issue did Angle come back in the UU since Death of Spider-Man? Not trying to argue or anything but I think I missed that part sadly.

And I think Apokolypse is more than just a mortal so I can't see him as something that can die. And with Mr. Sinister is could be a new person that is going by the name sort of like Mr. Sinister 2.0

**MrV** · 08-06-2012, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvell

Unless Cable is from an alternate universe. Kind of like in Days of Future Past when Shadowcat went back in time and changed things, but when she went back to her future, it was still the same. Basically, if you go back in time and change something, all you do is create an alternate reality. Your timeline remains intact. You can't change your present by altering the past. There was an issue of F4 (in 616) that explained that.

Geez, no wonder Earth-616 is so shitty. There are no real consequences to time travel because they play it safely.

You're misinformed about how Earth-1610 functions. The rules for time travel of Earth-616 are irrelevant to Earth-1610.

THE PROOF: (found below)

In the Ultimate Fantastic Four story arc "President Thor" the changing of the past had real effects in the present timeline. That is why Ben had to go back in time to restore the original timeline, otherwise the changes would have been permanent. That is also why the F4 had to follow the Chrono-Bandits back in UFF #21, because they went to the past and were going to kill the first evolved amphibian in history--which if they did would have resulted in everything in the present ceasing to exist.

All that is canon, as is the existence of the Argiopes, which devour time travelers who attempt to mess with the timeline.

This proves that Cable won't come back, because like Butterfly-Girl he doesn't exist anymore, and young Bishop will grow into the old one but won't marry Psylocke anymore because she died and the future has been changed.

**_Pandora_** · 08-06-2012, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by atlasjj

What issue did Angle come back in the UU since Death of Spider-Man? Not trying to argue or anything but I think I missed that part sadly.

And I think Apokolypse is more than just a mortal so I can't see him as something that can die. And with Mr. Sinister is could be a new person that is going by the name sort of like Mr. Sinister 2.0

Angel didn't return since DOSM, I was just referring to the old Apokolypse UXM story acr from years ago. It happened back then, not now.

And to add my 2 cents to the younger Bishop growing up to be the older Bishop conversation...if the older Bishop & Cable were part of an alternate future timeline that might not exist any more, then the younger Bishop could grow up to be a completely different older Bishop. He could grow up to be a completely different person. And as for older Bishop telling his younger self to not use his powers to escape prison to be a better person. That would probably seal the deal that younger Bishop will grow up to be a completely different person. That would be because he won't be making the same mistakes as his alternate future self did. Hence growing up to be a better person. I think Bishop is a character with no limitations, restrictions, or baggage, who is literally up for grabs if any writer wants to use him. He'll be a younger Bishop than usual though, but he would still be a cool Bishop character. And he probably won't know how to time travel, so that could be a new take on him.

**MrV** · 08-06-2012, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by _Pandora_

Angel didn't return since DOSM, I was just referring to the old Apokolypse UXM story acr from years ago. It happened back then, not now.

And to add my 2 cents to the younger Bishop growing up to be the older Bishop conversation...if the older Bishop & Cable were part of an alternate future timeline that might not exist any more, then the younger Bishop could grow up to be a completely different older Bishop. He could grow up to be a completely different person. And as for older Bishop telling his younger self to not use his powers to escape prison to be a better person. That would probably seal the deal that younger Bishop will grow up to be a completely different person. That would be because he won't be making the same mistakes as his alternate future self did. Hence growing up to be a better person. I think Bishop is a character with no limitations, restrictions, or baggage, who is literally up for grabs if any writer wants to use him. He'll be a younger Bishop than usual though, but he would still be a cool Bishop character. And he probably won't know how to time travel, so that could be a new take on him.

I am proof you can write an awesome younger Bishop without getting into time travel. In my fan fiction thread I had Bishop get out of prison and work for the Hellfire Club a bit before joining the X-Men and redeeming himself, becoming a valuable member and big brother figure to many of the younger members.

Link to my fan fiction: http://forums.comicbookresources.com...el-Fan-Fiction

EDIT: Bishop appears in the story arc "Street Warriors" (#72-74).

**_Pandora_** · 08-06-2012, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by MrV

I am proof you can write an awesome younger Bishop without getting into time travel. In my fan fiction thread I had Bishop get out of prison and work for the Hellfire Club a bit before joining the X-Men and redeeming himself, becoming a valuable member and big brother figure to many of the younger members.

Link to my fan fiction: http://forums.comicbookresources.com...el-Fan-Fiction

That's cool! I like it when fans share their passion for comics with me, epsecially the X-Men. I am a supporter of fan fics.