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  1. #5236

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    Quote Originally Posted by finfangfool View Post
    Religious and tribal/national movements have had as much to do with marginalizing and categorizing human beings as lesser creatures because they didn't share the same skin color/language/religion/customs/etc. as science has ever had (probably quite a bit more actually), but I'd never suggest turning away from believing in what you like or feeling proud of your country or culture. Just the part where you use it to justify bad behavior.

    But did they put it in textbooks and teach it as fact? At least with tribalism it would stop at the communities borders..now howzabout being recognized as the most technologically advanced nation in the world..and spouting that racist crap.

    And teaching it to the youth as the gospel. So much so that to this day..racial identity is used to discount a product manufactured by a minority as inferior ( without review--its an after-thought) or what is said by a minority..or women for that matter.
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  2. #5237
    Elder Member Jeff Brady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJP View Post
    But did they put it in textbooks and teach it as fact?
    They didn't need to put it in textbooks. They used the Bible to reinfornce their bigotry, and taught it (both the Bible and their bigotry) as fact.

    At least with tribalism it would stop at the communities borders.
    No it wouldn't. Look up The Bible. That's tribalism expanding well past its borders.
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  3. #5238

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Brady View Post
    They didn't need to put it in textbooks. They used the Bible to reinfornce their bigotry, and taught it (both the Bible and their bigotry) as fact.



    No it wouldn't. Look up The Bible. That's tribalism expanding well past its borders.
    The same Bible that eventually led to the denouncement of every act of which you speak. By comparison tribalism did none of those things.

    but we are once again bogged in minutia. Point being Science has been involved with heinous activities..supposed by learned men. And sure we can play the this atrocity is worse than that game. All day long. Doesnt change the fact that Science is ever changing, and one who adheres to it without compassion..following it blindly is an impediment.


    Now feel free to equivocate it with tribalism or religion as a deflection. Fact remains...

    I mean i wouldnt dare bring up an endangered animals plight to someone speaking about genoicide. thats in bad taste. just give the complainer their voice..nod and move on.
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  4. #5239
    Were You There? Michael P's Avatar
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    Anyone who adheres to anything without compassion is an asshat. Neither science nor religion is special in that regard.
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  5. #5240
    Elder Member Jeff Brady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJP View Post
    The same Bible that eventually led to the denouncement of every act of which you speak.
    There's a key word in there.

    "Eventually". The thing is, science changed faster.

    Doesnt change the fact that Science is ever changing
    Because we are always learning. Whereas ignoring it leads to stagnation.

    and one who adheres to it without compassion..following it blindly is an impediment.
    Which goes without saying for all things, not just science. Like, religion, for example.

    I mean i wouldnt dare bring up an endangered animals plight to someone speaking about genoicide. thats in bad taste. just give the complainer their voice..nod and move on.
    I don't know what you're talking about here.
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  6. #5241
    Imagination and Bravery Double 0's Avatar
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    Uh, the Age of Enlightenment happened for a reason. Because religion was being used to halt progress, and as a weapon of oppression and suppression.

    Funny enough, that hasn't changed. Religion is still being used for both.


    In short: the difference between science and religion is how they handle changes and discoveries.

    Scientists, if they want any respectability, must modify their claims when new discoveries contradict them.

    Religious figures are allowed to rationalize these discoveries to fit their belief.


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  7. #5242
    Elder Member SilverZeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Kamikaze10 View Post
    Oh, something I didn't bring up last week or so.

    DC's Uncle Sam is black in the NuDCU.
    U may wanna chek dis recent thread...

    Ethnicity Change for DC's Uncle Sam in New 52

    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...-Sam-in-New-52

  8. #5243
    Were You There? Michael P's Avatar
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    Ah, but the nascent scientific community of the "Enlightenment" was more than willing to come up with its own justifications for the oppression and suppression of native peoples.
    "If you can't say anything good about someone, sit right here by me." - Alice Roosevelt Longworth, on manners

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  9. #5244
    The Ag equals Silver AgPhoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Brady View Post
    They didn't need to put it in textbooks. They used the Bible to reinfornce their bigotry, and taught it (both the Bible and their bigotry) as fact.



    No it wouldn't. Look up The Bible. That's tribalism expanding well past its borders.
    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJP View Post
    The same Bible that eventually led to the denouncement of every act of which you speak. By comparison tribalism did none of those things.

    but we are once again bogged in minutia. Point being Science has been involved with heinous activities..supposed by learned men. And sure we can play the this atrocity is worse than that game. All day long. Doesnt change the fact that Science is ever changing, and one who adheres to it without compassion..following it blindly is an impediment.


    Now feel free to equivocate it with tribalism or religion as a deflection. Fact remains...

    I mean i wouldnt dare bring up an endangered animals plight to someone speaking about genoicide. thats in bad taste. just give the complainer their voice..nod and move on.
    I'm pretty sure you two know this, but what you're talking about is a two way street. Almost every tool that human use to make their lives easier (in helping to understand the world or otherwise) is not inherently evil, but can be used for it all the same. Roland is right in expounding about how science and education have been used (and are still being used in ways) to keep the institutional barrier that allows the very mindset that minorities are inherently inferior to the majority. It's so pervasive that the only thing those of us who are alive can do is combat it so that future generations aren't affected.

    In the same vein Brady is also right in how Religion has worked to reinforce attitudes that are reprehension with the knowledge that we have. They've also have done their part in justifying oppression against those who don't fit the mold. If the record of these three is worse than Science, it's only because the Western World only started to truly give Science its' due in the mid 18th Century - mid 19th Century. It still doesn't mean that Religion is inherently evil.

    Is assigning more blame to either Science, Education, Religion, Tribalism, Ethnocentrism, etc really productive?
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  10. #5245
    Imagination and Bravery Double 0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael P View Post
    Ah, but the nascent scientific community of the "Enlightenment" was more than willing to come up with its own justifications for the oppression and suppression of native peoples.
    Outside influences do affect the science world in many cases, but there is far more room for growth/cutting the bs IMO.
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  11. #5246
    Insanity is colorblind Mecegirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songbird/Diamondback View Post
    I'm pretty much running out of fuel after two days, but here it goes.

    spoilers:
    Killing Mettle, the black guy first, and then having his blood splatter all over the horrified Hazmat? And abducting the kids on CHRISTMAS EVE?!
    end of spoilers

    I hate this book.
    I have never hated a book more in my life.
    It's awfully paced, is complete fanwank to Arcade, and it's just plain mean spirited and cynical. I want this book canceled, and I am never, ever going to buy a Hopeless book.
    I saw your Hazmat post on tumblr. Made me laugh in a "this shouldn't be funny" kind of way. I haven't been paying attention to the AA book but just from hearing it's premise I hate the idea. I'm sorry that some of your favorite characters have to be written that way.
    And what kind of last name is Hopeless...That should be the first clue right there.

  12. #5247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mecegirl View Post
    I saw your Hazmat post on tumblr. Made me laugh in a "this shouldn't be funny" kind of way. I haven't been paying attention to the AA book but just from hearing it's premise I hate the idea. I'm sorry that some of your favorite characters have to be written that way.
    And what kind of last name is Hopeless...That should be the first clue right there.
    You mean Hazmat was right?

    But yeah, that first issue ensured I would never follow anything that man writes.

  13. #5248

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    Hey guy's here is a Kickstarter from Justin Martin, a young guy I met at A.P.E. two years ago.

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...ology-part-two

    I should warn you that the story has a religious base for those that have different beliefs. I count myself on the more spiritual side but I feel he has a strong story and he's a good dude.

    It's has a lot of minority characters, strong art and only asking for printing costs which is not that much so take a look when you get the chance.

    Thanks!
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    So I was standing in my garden at three in the morning with a glass of whisky, smoking furiously and swearing at the sky, reduced to waiting for the thunder bolt to hit when...

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  14. #5249
    I'm not a sidekick Kasper Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songbird/Diamondback View Post
    You mean Hazmat was right?

    But yeah, that first issue ensured I would never follow anything that man writes.
    I don't think it's fair to completely write off Hopeless (though that being your immediate reaction is understandable.)

    Nick Spencer penned a War Machine book that was gawd awful and downright insulting to Rhodey fans. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't now a bit gun shy when it comes to buying books that he writes but I also acknowledge the great work he's done on Morning Glories, Ultimate X-Men, and T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents.

    So while Hopeless current book has obviously left a bad taste in your mouth I wouldn't completely write him off as you might end up missing out on something that you'd like. Sometimes a writer just isn't a good fit for a particular book but can wow you with their work on another title.

  15. #5250
    Elder Member Jeff Brady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgPhoenix View Post
    Is assigning more blame to either Science, Education, Religion, Tribalism, Ethnocentrism, etc really productive?
    Not really. I just can't help pointing out Roland's infinitely flawed logic.
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