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  1. #4966
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneGold View Post
    I am completely confused as to how that would happen, short of re-writing the character from the beginning. This is a dude who tricked his father into killing all his siblings so that he'd get sent to hell. He's a villain. He's supposed to be reprehensible.
    Of course, which is why I said "revamp/retcon (emphasis on the "retcon"). Daken is (IMO) such a crappy character that his entire history would have to be completely retconned in order to make the character possibly more interesting and more popular.

    Also, he's a villain. They die and come back all the time. S'what they do. Red Skull died in his first appearance in 1941. Was back in the next issue.
    Quoted for the truth. If and when he does come back, I hope that all that crap about him being Wolverine's son will either be retconned out of continuity or be revealed that he is Sabretooth's son.

  2. #4967
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    I think that in the case of BM, some might think of him as a "Mary Sue" because he is to damn powerful and possess many powes that other characters have. Ditto for the Sentry.
    Powerful black characters tend to wound white male pride
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  3. #4968
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    Powerful black characters tend to wound white male pride
    Unless they are based in space fighting cosmic enemies, uber powerful superhero characters (regardless of race) do not go over well with many fans in general (just look at all of the justifiable hate Sentry gets).

  4. #4969
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    How many powerhouse black characters or POC does marvel have think near hulk level strength?

    I can count more aliens then I can minorities on that level.

    Fair better with energy manipulative though.
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  5. #4970
    Senior Member babybro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    Unless they are based in space fighting cosmic enemies, uber powerful superhero characters (regardless of race) do not go over well with many fans in general (just look at all of the justifiable hate Sentry gets).
    Not really true, the main reason sentry gets the hate that he does is because of

    1) Hype, this dude was said to have the power of a million suns, A MILLION SUNS! For christ sake man one sun could destroy the earth with nothing more than a horrendous cough, a million suns? What kind of madness is that.

    2) And this is a huge biggy, the retcon. This dude was the number 1 superhero in the world during the height time of every other superhero, he was the creme of the crop, better than thor, better than everyone else, and every single person was made to forget about him, including pretty much every favorite character from the silver age. Safe to say this doesn't go over well with pretty much 90% of the comic book audience who primary pride is their childhood nostalgia. This is mainly the dagger that forms for sentry, if he wasn't retcon into being the best of the best AND had the ability to have every single superhero in the world forget about him, he would have had a much better chance.

    Blue Marvel doesn't fit either of these bells.

    1) He was never claimed to be the best of the best, but pretty much remains one of the only current 100 ton black bricks. He's meant to hang with the best, meaning on any given day either bm or thor would win, or bm or hulk,, or any other brick powerhouses. But he was never claimed to be the best or hold the power of a million suns for example.

    2) He was a retcon, and I do believe this does hurt him a little bit. But he was never said to be the best of the best heroes, nor did he have the power to make every single person in the world, be it hero or standard human forget about his existence. So he was never claimed to be the top but among the best heroes of the 60's only.

    So there is some major differences between the two. When you actually look at bricks outside of sentry, you see them do a relatively good job. Skaar is 100 ton and has old power. No problems or issues, people actually enjoy him because it provides a different side to hulk that we normally don't see. Red She Hulk is literally having her own series, and she's a brand new character even though she has the benefit of being derived from betty ross/banner.

    Unfortunately there isn't that many 100 ton new characters so you are limited with what examples you can provide, but outside of sentry and the blue marvel, 100 ton new characters seem to gather a decent following, they just don't get as popular as their street level counterparts when it comes to marvel.

    DC on the other hand has no freakin excuse, they have so many uber powerful characters that sell well that it's not even funny, and yet we still don't have a black male superman level brick character
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  6. #4971
    Insanity is colorblind Mecegirl's Avatar
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    If DC had ever taken the time to develop Icon....

  7. #4972
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose100 View Post
    Stupid work computer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    On top of being "one of the strongest in the world", "one of the best leaders in the world", "one of the smartest people in the world" (as if one of those ALONE wasn't enough), with a PhD; he also graduated magna cum laude, was awarded TWO (not one, TWO) Silver Stars in the Marine Corps, and got the Presidential Medal of Freedom (from JFK, no less); built his own epic base of brilliance AND is best-buddies with the Watcher. That's a Mary Sue, fellas.
    So...you hate all accomplished renaissance characters? Superman? Batman? Black Panther? Doc Savage? Backaroo Banzai? Ace Rimmer?

    Quote Originally Posted by StoneGold View Post
    Rape, murder, arson and rape?
    Do you have something without rape in it?

    Well, there's kidnapping, murder, assault, rape and mugging...that's not got much rape in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mecegirl View Post
    If DC had ever taken the time to develop Icon....
    I would've liked him in the JL...
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  8. #4973

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneGold View Post
    Kind of glad the studio said no to Pryor acting in it, though. Dude was a genius standup, but as an actor, he worked better as a tandem or a sidekick. And sure, Wilder was in it, but the bulk of the movie was put on Little. That, and Little was able to ape the cowboy matinee idol shtick better than Pryor ever could have.
    "Ape the cowboy." Oh Gold never change..I mean really. LOL

    Studios were more worried about his Drug use more than his Acting. Interestingly enough, he was also up for Reggie in 48 hours, and Valentine in Trading Places.

    Gregory Hines should give him half his salaries for roles Pryor didnt get that he got.
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  9. #4974
    BUY LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coveredinbees View Post
    I know. I really hoped they'd come back at the end of the story. Hellstrom did. So, he killed Voodoo, broke his brother, and killed Kale to give Dr. Strange a story that did little for his development and nothing for theirs. At least Ms. Hand was his own creation.
    I feel very disappointed; from Voodoo's "death" a few years ago, I kept saying "calm down guys, it was clearly part II of a THREE part story, Voodoo is the Han Solo of the trilogy, etc"... I can't believe Jericho wasn't brought back. I'd wager money that Bendis' original arc DID involve him coming back at the end; it makes no sense for him to still be gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    And he also swallows.
    HAHAHAHAHA!!! And he does it with a smile too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    I think (and I could be wrong) that the reason Daken died was because someone at Marvel realized that it was a stupid idea to give Wolverine a full grown son. IMO, Daken should have been Sabertooth's son (and Wolverine should have been Sabertooth's as well like Claremont and Byrne planned) and given different powers and a different attitude the Logan. This might have made the character more interesting and appealing to more fans.
    I adore BOTH these ideas... is it too late to retcon him as Sabertooth's son? Would it work? That would be quite a twist AND free Daken from the only bad part of his character (his daddy issues). I fully support this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    However, it still sucks that another minority character was killed off, regardless of my feelings about said character. IMO, I prefer that the creators revamp/retcon a minority character in the hope that it might make them more popular and interesting rather then kill them off.
    Pretty much; it's a shame when any character dies, frankly. I don't mind as much when it's an epic death or a "correct" death, like Colossus or Fantomex; written well, moving, just. Daken's could have worked too, if it had been handled better, and the sympathy made greater (for Daken especially). In many ways his sad obssession with his dad is very pitiable; but too few writers make it that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    Unless they are based in space fighting cosmic enemies, uber powerful superhero characters (regardless of race) do not go over well with many fans in general (just look at all of the justifiable hate Sentry gets).
    This... and the fact Kevin G went waaaaaay over-board giving his fanboy character every accolade under the sun. Some writers need to learn from whoever created Hawkeye; no powers, no wealth, no great intelligence... and STILL a riverting character. Flawless characters are a BAD idea.

    Interestingly, do you know the story of Mary Sue (the original one)? Mary Sue was a character created for Star Trek fan-fic.
    [from Wikipedia] Lt. MARY SUE —the adventures of the youngest and smartest ever person to graduate from the academy and ever get a commission at such a tender age. Usually characterized by unprecedented skill in everything from art to zoology, including karate and arm-wrestling. This character can also be found burrowing her way into the good graces/heart/mind of one of the Big Three [Kirk, Spock, and McCoy], if not all three at once. She saves the day by her wit and ability, and, if we are lucky, has the good grace to die at the end, being grieved by the entire ship

    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper View Post
    So...you hate all accomplished renaissance characters? Superman? Batman? Black Panther? Doc Savage? Backaroo Banzai? Ace Rimmer?
    Pretty much... I don't really like any character being "one of the best" at numerous things. I think T'Challa is the only one who I really have any interest in; and I struggled with that for a LONG time; because (as I say) I don't like too perfect characters. I mean my "Top Ten" is:
    1. Moonstone [Dr. Karla Sofen]
    2. Daken Akihiro
    3. the White Queen [Emma Frost]
    4. Baron Helmut Zemo
    5. Doctor Voodoo [Dr. Jericho Drumm]
    6. Storm [Queen Ororo Monroe]
    7. Wiccan [William 'Billy' Kaplan]
    8. Songbird [Melissa Gold]
    9. Dust [Sooraya Qadir]
    10. Fantomex [Jean-Philippe/Charlie-Cluster 7]

    Of them... really the only two considered "one of the best" at anything would be Storm for leadership and thieving (both of which still means she can have many weaknesses/not a deus-ex-machina in a fight) and Doctor Voodoo for magic (and he still has so many foes who can defeat him, because magic... isn't a science ). I don't do perfect characters, I like flaws and a dark edge. Perfect character like Superman... ugh! Ohhh, no, no, no.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 12-07-2012 at 04:58 AM.
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  10. #4975
    Senior Member babybro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mecegirl View Post
    If DC had ever taken the time to develop Icon....
    Bingo, Icon has excellent potential, just by his conservative viewpoint alone (which is extremely rare these days, a black conservative)
    Alex Ross also had a superman level brick character idea that was going to be part of the shazam mythos but dc never went with it.
    It's okay though, cause my comic can fill up the void that these two companies lack lol.
    Snowstorm Comics is the newest comic book publisher. Releasing their first print "Kindred" from their upcoming comic, "Evolved" you can find out more at snowstormcomics.com

  11. #4976
    Elder Member SilverZeal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blade X:
    Unless they are based in space fighting cosmic enemies, uber powerful superhero characters (regardless of race) do not go over well with many fans in general (just look at all of the justifiable hate Sentry gets).
    Did u notice d Sentry h8 began alot much more vividly when Bendis was writing d xcter?

    Sentry went frm "power of 1,000 suns" 2 "power of 1 million suns"....?!?

    Now add dat 2 hw terrible Bendis wrote d xcter.

    Now remember dat Marvel already gv Sentry abt 5 minis of varying lengths of issues... Bendis is d guy who ruind d xcter.

    And with dat all said BM shud also b given a fair chance.
    Last edited by SilverZeal; 12-07-2012 at 12:15 PM.

  12. #4977
    Elder Member SilverZeal's Avatar
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    Really really gd(though a lil glossy...minor gripe) lukin art frm d C & D 1-shot a few years bak.

    Gat dammit d team dat did dat 1-shot(writer, artist, inkers) shud b given another shot with C & D 5-7 issue mini.

  13. #4978

  14. #4979
    Cat smells like fish StoneGold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJP View Post
    "Ape the cowboy." Oh Gold never change..I mean really. LOL

    Studios were more worried about his Drug use more than his Acting. Interestingly enough, he was also up for Reggie in 48 hours, and Valentine in Trading Places.

    Gregory Hines should give him half his salaries for roles Pryor didnt get that he got.
    You know, I so wasn't thinking about it, it didn't even enter my mind. If it would make you feel better, I'd have said that Wilder was aping the sidekick shtick.

    And totally about the drug thing. Just saying for that particular role, Cleavon might have worked out better anyway.
    The Punisher: Iím going to cauterize your rectum, sealing it shut, so when you turn those delicious Pink Pantsô Fruit Pies into waste products the bilirubin in your feces will leach into your bloodstream and youíll die screaming! And Iíll watch while having sex with this grateful prostitute!

    Trussed-Up Hooker: Blueberry are my favorite!

    In other words, what StoneGold said.
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  15. #4980
    Forever Hooligan Genki Sudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mecegirl View Post
    If DC had ever taken the time to develop Icon....
    They never even wanted to think that far, to DC Milestone has been a hinderance since Levitz stepped down arguably

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