Minorities and Other Issues in Comics Thread/Community IV

[RolandJP]

Rape, murder, arson and rape?

Richard Pryor and Mel should have written more movies together.

[Froggy]

it'd never happen

Mags has no TP

yeah, I went there and back, oh snap

[Froggy]

I'm considering making a thread about how women's struggles are treated in comics (less from a strictly sexual perspective and more from a general one). Should I just post what would have been the OP in here since this seems to be the catch-all discussion topic for hot button comic issues? I'm sure there's been a few threads on it before, but none in recent memory.

And yes, I realize I'd be essentially setting off a ticking time bomb. It does, however, need to be discussed maturely. Maybe this would be the best place to do it.

It's totally cool for you to bring any kidn of talk about women's struggles into this thread GarageGlamorous

as the threadstarter, I totally condone this

[StoneGold]

Richard Pryor and Mel should have written more movies together.

Kind of glad the studio said no to Pryor acting in it, though. Dude was a genius standup, but as an actor, he worked better as a tandem or a sidekick. And sure, Wilder was in it, but the bulk of the movie was put on Little. That, and Little was able to ape the cowboy matinee idol shtick better than Pryor ever could have.

[Moose100]

http://comics.cosmicbooknews.com/con...nd-need-female

Fearless Defenders Interview.

[Kieran_Frost]

I don't think remender did it maliciously

Oh, god; neither do I.

it was one of those things where the writer doesn't realize the implications, sort of like Bendis giving a black character the name Jefferson Davis, which unfortunately is also the name of the president of the Confederate States of America, which isn't a good look you know?

QUOTE FOR TRUTH. Much like Robert Kirkman and Freedom Ring. Here's two good quote by him on that:
"Freedom Ring was always planned as an inexperienced hero who would get beaten up constantly and probably die. I wanted to comment on the fact that most superheroes get their powers and are okay at it... and that's not how life works. During working on the book, I was also noticing that most gay characters... are all about being gay. Straight characters are well-rounded characters who like chicks. So I wanted to do a well-rounded character who just happened to like dudes. Then I decided to combine the two ideas. In hindsight, yeah, killing a gay character is no good when there are so few of them... but I really had only the best of intentions in mind."

"Frankly, with the SMALL amount of gay characters in comics in general, and how unfortunate the portrayals have been thus far, whether intentional or not—I completely understand the backlash on the death of Freedom Ring, regardless of my intentions. If I had it to do all over again... I wouldn't kill him. I regret it more and more as time goes on. I got rid of what?[sic] 20% of the gay characters at Marvel by killing off this ONE character. I just never took that stuff into consideration while I was writing."

yeah I don't think no one here thought you objected to the death, just the way it was done, which is why someone brought up Phyla Vell earlier in the thread and the creepy ending she had

I've never read any Cosmos comics, so I didn't know about hers... yeah... those scans...

For wolverine: the whole murdering thing I've (tried to amount to) is him realizing that he's already stained his hands, but he doesn't want Evan too since it might lead us to Apocalypse, The Sequel

Agreed, and I think the idea is sound; just for me it felt like too much "no... killing is wrong" for everyone BUT Daken. Sabertooth should have just gloated and ran away, it would have made things easier. I mean, who gives a speech about murder not being the answer as they stand over the body of their son they just killed. Oh Logan, his hypocrisy knows no bounds!

I don't think he could "kill" Shadow King though,dude has survived some insane ass deaths

Psylocke implied the Omega child could have drained Shadow King of all his essence, in a sense "killing him".

And not only was it moved, they closed it.

It was a thread about rape; OF COURSE it would be closed. It's too serious a topic to discuss; that requires you to leave emotions at the door and not get personal. I was surprised how quickly it was shut (in the X-board, of all places... I mean; if it can't survive there... it won't survive anywhere). Rape is probably THE topic (over murder, over politics, over everything, really) that never end well on any discussion board; because emotion outweighs logic/clear thinking/actually READING what people are saying, not what you "think" they are saying or what you are "projecting" they are saying.

I went ahead and made a seperate thread to give the issue a signal boost.
http://forums.comicbookresources.com...1#post16264851

Good thread, good topic to discuss, well laid out opening statement! Kudos! I've comments just now in it. :)

[coveredinbees]

4) everyone keeps forgetting Jennifer Kale is bisexual; so that's two LGBT characters killed in Bendis' arc (off panel too)

I know. I really hoped they'd come back at the end of the story. Hellstrom did. So, he killed Voodoo, broke his brother, and killed Kale to give Dr. Strange a story that did little for his development and nothing for theirs. At least Ms. Hand was his own creation.

[Blade X]

Fuck Daken, Daken sucks.

And he also swallows.

Seriously, the problem with Daken (as well as X-23) is that he is an unnecessary redundant character. We already have Wolverine (who is way over exposed), we don't need any Wolverine knockoffs. And Wolverine doesn't need to have any kids and junior knockoffs.

[Blade X]

Daken IMO died of the same disease that killed Brother Voodoo and IA gonna kill Avengers Arena gang.

"Can't keep an ongoing series-itis".

I'm a little surprised about Daken myself.

A sociopathic bisexual mastercriminal is pure fangirl bait. Outside of that there are always those peeps who want to see the bad Guy win.

How Marvel failed to leverage that I'll never know.

I think (and I could be wrong) that the reason Daken died was because someone at Marvel realized that it was a stupid idea to give Wolverine a full grown son. IMO, Daken should have been Sabertooth's son (and Wolverine should have been Sabertooth's as well like Claremont and Byrne planned) and given different powers and a different attitude the Logan. This might have made the character more interesting and appealing to more fans.

[SilverZeal]

It's Eden Fesi. Hickman has said he's not using Monica Rambeau. I do agree that her being Captain Universe would be cool, though.

Sunspot, not Sunfire.

"T" woman is Smasher.

We/SZ visciously applaud JH 4 mking an Aborigine a member of d adjectiveless Avengers...we can only hope mo awesomeness 4 Fesi ...& Shang-chi.

[Blade X]

Obviously I agree quality matters (and for the record, I ADORE Daken, he's my #3rd favourite comic character EVER) BUT... when discussing diversity; the arguement "they don't count, because they are sh*t" isn't a) helpful, or b) going to get us anywhere. Surely you see that? When we can discount characters in diversity discussions because WE personally don't like the character... How will that benefit anyone?

Quoted for the truth. And for the record, I HATE Daken and I'm not shedding any tears over him being "killed off". However, it still sucks that another minority character was killed off, regardless of my feelings about said character. IMO, I prefer that the creators revamp/retcon a minority character in the hope that it might make them more popular and interesting rather then kill them off.

[Froggy]

yeah I don't buy that Omega White has "killed" Shadow King

I'm just a skeptic about it since dude is like Malice, and she is STILL KICKING

[StoneGold]

Quoted for the truth. And for the record, I HATE Daken and I'm not shedding any tears over him being "killed off". However, it still sucks that another minority character was killed off, regardless of my feelings about said character. IMO, I prefer that the creators revamp/retcon a minority character in the hope that it might make them more popular and interesting rather then kill them off.

I am completely confused as to how that would happen, short of re-writing the character from the beginning. This is a dude who tricked his father into killing all his siblings so that he'd get sent to hell. He's a villain. He's supposed to be reprehensible.


Also, he's a villain. They die and come back all the time. S'what they do. Red Skull died in his first appearance in 1941. Was back in the next issue.

[Blade X]

So Dakan gets no sympathy because he is an unrepentant serial rapist and B) as a Wolverine knockoff he diminishes that character's(Wolverine) value.

So those folks that want to see him dead (or stay dead) do so because of those reasons not because he is LGBT.
If Daken were straight Mike P would still hate the characters (not to speak for Mike-he can speak for himself).

Speaking solely for myself, I would still HATE Daken if he was straight for those very reasons that you stated.

[Blade X]

A Mary Sue is an Author Insert that always wins out, IIRC.

So I don't think that is the correct definition of Mary Sue in general as (a character that everything goes great for)
or as far as BM goes particular (even accepting KF's definition).

Dude (IIRC) found out his wife was a Fed assigned to watch him, then she died.
What's ideal about that? Dude got played.

For decades.

I think that in the case of BM, some might think of him as a "Mary Sue" because he is to damn powerful and possess many powes that other characters have. Ditto for the Sentry.