Avengers VS X-Men #9 Review *SPOILERS*

[FantoXorn]

That argument doesn't fly. Grant Morrison wrote epic arcs in New X-Men that lasted on three issues. E for Extinction and Germ Free Generation were really only three issues long and were cram packed with in depth characterization, epic plotting, building off of old material, and introducing new, all the while not needing an external source to understand what was going on. The page count argument is a cop out. There are some writers/artists that can convey a deep meaningful idea or even a plot within three panels. What you are arguing is decompression, which is what Marvel is doing now and it's not helping their sales.

Totally true. What you said. Grant's X-Men actually CHANGED the X-Men. And people like BENDIS have tried to undo his changes to the X-Men even though they don't write them - especially during these crappy events. (Like through House of M, the Xorn arc in New Avengers, by making Wolverine an Avenger who can be 100 places at once as compared to his old record of 5 or 6 places at once, etc.,) Separately we had writers like Whedon, Remender, and Aaron use some of Morrison's developments.

But is Aaron really writing this? How much of it is editorial direction? It's just dumb and loud nonsense. It's out of character for Aaron. (Sorry) I can't believe it. And he really must hate Colossus, Magik, and Emma because what they do in this issue makes little sense.

This is like reading a terrible "X-Men: The End" sort of book. I can't wait for Bendis to desecrate my memories of 50 years of the Original 5 with his new take on them. It will be like reading Chuck Austen write Nightcrawler or Gambit. (Yay, Gambit has fart powers and Nightcrawler is a demon!)

I know how this series began at the writer's retreat. The true story.

Bendis turned over an old bin of ToyBiz figures and set up the plot. First he grabbed Cyclops and said, "No Cap, you can't take my adopted grand daughter by my son from the future. He then used the sound effects Pyoo Pyoo as Cap blocked the optic blasts with his shield followed by a clever Bonk sound effect after throwing the shield at Cyclops.

All the architects were captivated when Alonso stepped in with wise editorial decision to come up with a better sound effect than Pyoo. The rest as they say was history as well as pretending this was years in the making.

Your little story here of how Bendis thought up AvX would be more entertaining in comic book form than AvX actually is.

First post? Well done, sir.

Hey, I've read a lot of the board's excellent commentary over the past year or so, so that helps. Maybe I can write something a little more constructive next time. Thanks.

[Goldgeller]

Totally true. What you said. Grant's X-Men actually CHANGED the X-Men. And people like BENDIS have tried to undo his changes to the X-Men even though they don't write them - especially during these crappy events. (Like through House of M, the Xorn arc in New Avengers, by making Wolverine an Avenger who can be 100 places at once as compared to his old record of 5 or 6 places at once, etc.,) Separately we had writers like Whedon, Remender, and Aaron use some of Morrison's developments.

But is Aaron really writing this? How much of it is editorial direction? It's just dumb and loud nonsense. I can't believe it. And he really must hate Colossus, Magik, and Emma because what they do in this issue makes little sense.

You are right about a lot of this stuff, especially when you talk about the characterization. I can't sign on to all you've said, but you hit the nail on the head when you talked about Colossus and Magik, and you could say that about some of the other stuff in the book. Why care or invest yourself in the characters if they will be disrespected in a drop of the hat? Comics and characters have to change, they can make stupid decisions (people do this all the time) but this stuff is pushing the bounds of believability and respectability, even in a comic world.

Look, Marvel has to draw new readers in and take risks... I just think there are other ways of taking risks than what they are doing with AvX. It was so obvious that they'd screw the P5 when they got the Phoenix power, my stomach kinda dropped. But I didn't realize they'd just send everyone into idiot mode so hardcore.

[0bsessions]

Done with X-Men before Bendis has his way with them by completely making the original X-Men look out of character as well. What can we look forward to? Jean Grey gets an abortion? What a fun issue! It'll be like reading his work on the Scarlet Witch, Luke Cage, or the Sentry.
Well, maybe I'll still pick up Wolverine and the X-Men or UXF.

Either you're trolling or didn't bother to read the credits. You go on a Nerge rant for the ages about this awful title and the OOC writing and blah blah blah. You then go on about how Bendis is going to ruin the franchise but you'll still puck up WatXM.

Yet somehow, in all that, you managed to miss the fact that the primary contributor to this issue you're bitching about was written by Jason Aaron, the guy who writes WatXM.

[FantoXorn]

Either you're trolling or didn't bother to read the credits. You go on a Nerge rant for the ages about this awful title and the OOC writing and blah blah blah. You then go on about how Bendis is going to ruin the franchise but you'll still puck up WatXM.

Yet somehow, in all that, you managed to miss the fact that the primary contributor to this issue you're bitching about was written by Jason Aaron, the guy who writes WatXM.

Did you look at post #451? Of course I know that Aaron wrote this. Straight up, I'm disappointed in the issue and I suggest that he was under editorial direction.

Sorry man but this series is one of few in awhile that have driven me to a nerd rant. Frankly quietly I need a break from Marvel and I'm disillusioned. The continuity is so heavy after the past ten (or more) Quesadilla years and most of the books have lost their fun. I loved what some of the writers were doing with Morrison's Cyclops/Emma pairing and I liked post-return Colossus before Fear Itself set him up for a fall. It was also intriguing to see Namor finally do something in the MU - he's a great character and one of Marvel's oldest. All of these characters have been turned into villains, are acting OOC, etc., and it is disrespectful of the editorial staff and the writers including Aaron to just ignore all of the fun developments for the sake of this putrid event book. Will I stick with WatXM? Possibly. X-Force? Probably. Hey, it's Remender. Really man, like others here, I worship Morrison's run. It just gave the X-Books a needed shot of adrenaline/originality/new ideas but apparently freaked out the editorial staff because they are always freaked out by change - oh Spider-Man must eternally be Peter Parker, youthful unmarried chatterbox etc., Personally I'd love to see them all of these iconic characters killed or evolved or I'd love to see a new generation of heroes because this constant rebirth is getting stale. And here we have to see it happen to the original X-Men, and say goodbye 40+ years of continuity, but that is a different thread so...

How does all this relate to this issue? The actions of Colossus and Magik in this issue are so weird. (I can see Namor going crazy after possessing tons of power) It feels like everything crossed a red line for me during this issue and I'm just done and not looking to Marvel NOW or whatever it is after seeing what they'll do to some of my favorite characters. I read the Whedon run and loved his Colossus but I wish that they would have stuck him back in the grave after that after reading this pulp. (and the "date" story in WatXM)

[Fringe Division]

Of course I know that Aaron wrote this. Straight up, I'm disappointed in the issue and I suggest that he was under editorial direction.

Good writers can overcome editorial interference. Hickman, for example, who hasn't written either franchise up to this point, managed to produce issues that were decent and weren't wildly out of character. Likewise, for as much whining as I've seen about AvX "derailing" WatXM from its proponents as a means to excuse the increasingly poor quality of the tie-in issues, Gillen consistently manages to handle having crossover event after crossover event thrown at his ongoings (all of them) by sucking it up and writing amazing tie-ins.

Unless you think "editorial direction" is going so far as to feed Aaron word-for-word dialogue, there is absolutely no excuse for how absurdly bad his writing was this issue (and elsewhere). I doubt Brevoort is standing over his shoulder going, "No, Jason, MORE WHALE LEGS!"

At what point does it stop being everyone else's fault that he has turned out garbage in the same environment in which many of his peers have managed to spin gold or at least write something that doesn't induce a minimum of two eye-rolls per panel?

[FantoXorn]

Good writers can overcome editorial interference. Hickman, for example, who hasn't written either franchise up to this point, managed to produce issues that were decent and weren't wildly out of character. Likewise, for as much whining as I've seen about AvX "derailing" WatXM from its proponents as a means to excuse the increasingly poor quality of the tie-in issues, Gillen consistently manages to handle having crossover event after crossover event thrown at his ongoings (all of them) by sucking it up and writing amazing tie-ins.

Unless you think "editorial direction" is going so far as to feed Aaron word-for-word dialogue, there is absolutely no excuse for how absurdly bad his writing was this issue (and elsewhere). I doubt Brevoort is standing over his shoulder going, "No, Jason, MORE WHALE LEGS!"

At what point does it stop being everyone else's fault that he has turned out garbage in the same environment in which many of his peers have managed to spin gold or at least write something that doesn't induce a minimum of two eye-rolls per panel?

You have a point. That's perhaps a skill that writers of comic books need, dealing with tie-ins? I feel that Aaron does very well with WatXM when it isn't tied up with something... or perhaps the basic idea of the book is still fresh.

And I have enjoyed Gillen's run as well. That's what makes this hard to read. The characters aren't the characters that I read in his run.

[Washout]

Are people really upset about the whale legs? That was brilliant.

[Regino]

"Who did a doo-doo on the carpet? Hepzibah???"