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  1. #46
    Modus omnibus in rebus Roquefort Raider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berk View Post
    The Kirby FF one I thought only worked at all because of the artwork. The whole idea of Kirby/Lee/Bullpen camaraderie didn't quite ring true to me by the time this came out. Although I didn't know anything about Kirby's disputes with Marvel management or why he'd moved to DC and then back to Marvel, it was obvious that he was more interested in working with his own ideas and his books didn't feel like they were in tune with the rest of Marvel's line-up.
    A spot-on analysis, berk. That issue had a kind of dated quality that reminded me of comics published a decade before (which is a lot when you're 13) and I had no idea who Sol Brodsky and Flo Steinberg were. I wondered at the time "who is really interested in these characters? Give me Nova, dammit!" As for Jack's art, it would take a few years for me to become a fan of it; I was still upset at his taking over Captain America and turning it into something which definitely wasn't in synch with the Englehart/Sal Buscema version (which was at the time the only one I knew).
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roquefort Raider View Post
    A spot-on analysis, berk. That issue had a kind of dated quality that reminded me of comics published a decade before (which is a lot when you're 13) and I had no idea who Sol Brodsky and Flo Steinberg were. I wondered at the time "who is really interested in these characters? Give me Nova, dammit!" As for Jack's art, it would take a few years for me to become a fan of it; I was still upset at his taking over Captain America and turning it into something which definitely wasn't in synch with the Englehart/Sal Buscema version (which was at the time the only one I knew).
    My situation was a little different in that I had taken a couple years or more off from following comics and came back, just by coincidence, around the same time Kirby came back to Marvel - so I had missed, for example, the Englehart Captain America, not to mention all Kirby's DC stuff. I could see that Kirby's style wasn't on the same wavelength as the rest of the Marvel stuff I liked best at the time - Gerber, Englehart, etc - but enjoyed both on their own separate terms.

    Here's a few What Ifs I haven't read that sound interesting. Anyone have any comments or recommendations on these?

    What If ...
    The Avengers Defeated Everyone
    (this one seems such a vague idea I'm curious how they tried to make it work)
    Everyone Who was Ever an Avenger Stayed an Avenger
    The Avengers had Fought Galactus
    Captain Marvel Hadn't Died

  3. #48
    Administrator Expletive Deleted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berk View Post
    The Avengers had Fought Galactus
    It's not bad. Jim Valentino wrote and drew it, although I think he I remember him using a little more of a Kirby-inflected style than usual. The title is a bit misleading; it's more "What if the FF had crash-landed," removing them from the first few years of Marvel's history. Human Torch never wakes up Namor so he never unthaws Captain America, that kind of thing. It's pretty well thought-out, as far as these things go.

    Quote Originally Posted by berk View Post
    Captain Marvel Hadn't Died
    It's not very good. The creative team has about five total credits to their names, the twist is telegraphed so far in advance it should be on the front cover, and it lacks a certain spark.
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  4. #49
    Elder Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berk View Post
    What If ...
    The Avengers Defeated Everyone
    (this one seems such a vague idea I'm curious how they tried to make it work)
    The story that inspired it was Avengers Annual #2, which featured an interesting alternate reality where the powerful original line-up of the Avengers defeated all the early Marvel heroes and villains and then any new ones as soon as they showed up. The What If? version explored that scenario further, by just not having the 616 version of the Avengers show up to fight them. It was an okay issue, but the Avengers Annual was much better.
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
    Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from Birmingham Jail, April 16, 1963

  5. #50
    Bronze Aged B.A.L.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roquefort Raider View Post
    The first volume was based on classic Marvel stories, mostly, and often used creators associated with the characters depicted. Frank Miller did the "What if Elektra had lived?" story, Jack Kirby did the "What if the F.F. were the original Marvel Bulletin?" and the story "What if Conan walked the Earth today?" was made by the regular team of Thomas, Buscema and Chan. The series often had a classic feel to it. There are truly great issues in there ("What if Dr. Doom had been a hero?", "What if Shang Chi had not turned his back on Fu Manchu?", "What if Dr. Strange had been a disciple of Dormammu?" and so on).
    I can't echo issue #22 enough...It's easily the best "What If" I've ever had the pleasure of reading. Don Glut truly nails it with this one, and actually made a Doom hero quite believable and awesome. No doubt, he left me wanting more. Although his origin story is largely still the same, things get interesting once he dons the Monk-forged armor. I simply love the look of Doom's golden-green costume, even though he kind of resembles the Black Knight. Another great thing about Doom's "hero-version", is that he still talks the same...ya know, spouting out phrases like, "Worthless, insufferable Dolt" while saving the world. And Fred Kida puts a stamp on it with his artwork in this one, making "What If Dr. Doom Had Become A Hero?" a classic for the ages. My only issue is that the cover is pretty corny, but hell...

    Go. Read. This. Now!

    Excerpts:






  6. #51
    Modus omnibus in rebus Roquefort Raider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Gravity View Post
    Another great thing about Doom's "hero-version", is that he still talks the same...ya know, spouting out phrases like, "Worthless, insufferable Dolt" while saving the world.
    Absolutely! I agree that this must be one of the very best, if not the very best, of the What if..? books, because it really, really makes the concept work. Apart from that one moment when Doom listens to Reed instead of throwing hoim out of his room, everything remains the same: this is the Doom we know, arrogance and all. The story brilliantly emphasizes how it takes very little to send someone down one path instead of a radically different one.

    I'm happy that story was published in the 70s. Were it done today, the character would probably have gotten his own series, and a few years down the line that great book would have been diluted and made irrelevant.
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  7. #52
    Senior Member Bad Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berk View Post
    Here's a few What Ifs I haven't read that sound interesting. Anyone have any comments or recommendations on these?

    What If ...
    The Avengers Defeated Everyone
    (this one seems such a vague idea I'm curious how they tried to make it work)
    IIRC the Scarlet Centurion convinces them to do it, which makes them look very gullible (much like they did in Avengers/Defenders War), but the "darkness" of the story appealed to me. We see a few battles but most of the characters are disposed of off-panel.


    Quote Originally Posted by berk View Post
    Everyone Who was Ever an Avenger Stayed an Avenger
    I think that was just a joke cartoon in #34. Was there a serious version?

  8. #53
    Junior Member Norrin Radd's Avatar
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    Here are my faves. I thought Volume 2 of What If? had some outstanding issues.






  9. #54
    Junior Member Norrin Radd's Avatar
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    contd...




  10. #55
    Senior Member Bad Wolf's Avatar
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    How would the alien costume protect him from Hulk or Thor's hammer?

  11. #56
    Junior Member Norrin Radd's Avatar
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    Chalk it up to artistic license. But the costume does gain incredible power in this issue though. Won't spoil it for ya as to how.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Gravity View Post
    I can't echo issue #22 enough...It's easily the best "What If" I've ever had the pleasure of reading. Don Glut truly nails it with this one, and actually made a Doom hero quite believable and awesome. No doubt, he left me wanting more. Although his origin story is largely still the same, things get interesting once he dons the Monk-forged armor. I simply love the look of Doom's golden-green costume, even though he kind of resembles the Black Knight. Another great thing about Doom's "hero-version", is that he still talks the same...ya know, spouting out phrases like, "Worthless, insufferable Dolt" while saving the world. And Fred Kida puts a stamp on it with his artwork in this one, making "What If Dr. Doom Had Become A Hero?" a classic for the ages. My only issue is that the cover is pretty corny, but hell...

    Go. Read. This. Now!

    Excerpts:





    That What if is the BEST of all. Doom was excelent in there.

  13. #58
    Modus omnibus in rebus Roquefort Raider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
    contd...



    These are a good example of what the second series was about. Instead of playing the "what if?" concept on pivotal moments in some hero's life, they focused on recent events in the Marvel universe. But did we really need more Inferno???
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