View Poll Results: Who was the better Spider-Man by their second arc?

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  • Peter Parker!

    21 43.75%
  • I'm not really sure. I like both.

    10 20.83%
  • Miles Morales!

    17 35.42%
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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrV View Post
    You can blame that on Bendis' terrible pacing.

    If I were writing Miles' book, I would work my structure like this...

    #1-3 = origin (little decompression as I am not fond of that)

    #4 = Spidey VS Omega Red (I love this guy as villain ) to illustrate how Venom Strike works under normal conditions and also how Miles reacts to his win--which was undeniably cute in #7.

    #5 = Spidey meets Spider-Woman and Ultimates but use RHINO as foe instead of Electro to illustrate when he can't use Venom Strike and must rely on his wits, assuming Venom Strike only affects those of flesh and bone, unlike RHINO who is too bulky to be affected and has that protective armor.

    #6 = Develop supporting cast by having Ganke help Miles defeat The Ringer. To make it interesting we could have the story take place in a weekend, when Miles and Ganke go have fun at the arcade and they happen to come across a robbery.

    #7 = Develop supporting cast by having Rio Morales learn her son's secret identity during a parent-teacher conference. She could notice when Aaron talks to Miles and advice him on how to deal with him. We also see Rio as a supporter of Miles as Spidey after her son protects her from thugs on the street.

    #8-10 = Prowler story arc... (without too much decompression)
    Love all your suggestions, especially the one with Rhino, that would've been great. I'm hoping someone like Judge finds out but not really his mom right now, especially considering the way his dad is. I do hope to see his parents more developed however. Also curious to see more of his family.

  2. #32
    Peter Parker Darman456's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daybreak_st View Post
    You know what I just re-read the original post and you were completely right. He did ask about your personal favorite. I'm sorry about that, didn't mean to come across as a guy trying to dictate who people can like, wow I am sorry about that. I was reading and responding on my android very late last night. I was under the wrong impression.

    Let me at least try to explain why I came across the way I did. My view was that people were answering "I like Miles better as Spider-man" and not "who is the better Spider-man". Those are two very different questions from my perspective. It's like saying, "who is your favorite Robin" vs "who is the most acrobatic Robin". One is pure opinion "oh I like _____ b/c of ____". That's fine. The second question is more measurable "well who has demonstrated greater acrobatic ability".

    I saw the question "which is the better Spider-man by the end of their second arc?" similar to the second question about the more acrobatic Robin. It's somewhat measurable, based on things like, what he accomplished, skill level, learning curve, etc. Based on those measurable things I have to go with Peter. But based on just opinion both guys are great so far.
    Actually, my whole idea was to ask who was the better Spider-Man in terms of...being Spider-Man in the person's opinion. I was wondering who was the best at being what made Spider-Man, Spider-Man. I didn't mean for this to become a debate in terms of "Bagley wasn't a very good artist" and stuff like that. I was wondering who, in terms of the character who was developed, was the true Spider-Man to that person. I wasn't talking about story. I was talking about the character fitting the role. Now I realize I should've been clearer because this thread has become derailed from what I actually meant.
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  3. #33
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    And why would "true Spider-Man" be defined by your persception of what a Spider-Man is? Thats like saying there can only be one kind of an Batman.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Trallis's Avatar
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    How about an option for "I don't care who's better, I am continuing to enjoy an ongoing story"

    Peter and Miles' first two arcs were completely different in pacing and planning. Obviously the original USM was some of the greatest spider-man material ever written. I'm enjoying Miles' story just as much. But you're asking a different question. Why would you ask who is the better spider-man, and then give an option for "I like both". Who we like better has nothing to do with who does a better job of being Spider-Man. It also has nothing to do with how good the story is. That's why I enjoy Ultimate Spider-Man. The story is great. It's not Peter or Miles that make it great, it's Bendis putting on his A-game and a series of incredible artists.

    I think Peter was doing a better job early on to be honest.. Miles had some trouble figuring out his powers, getting detained by SHIELD, his uncle manipulating him, etc. It's two completely different scenarios. But while I say Peter was doing a better job, I'm not voting in this poll.. because I don't think it's ever gonna end with you until you get everyone to say "Marvel made a huge mistake in killing off Peter Parker. They should bring him back to life somehow". What'll it be a few months from now? "Which Spider-Man was a better Spider-Man by the end of their third arc?" Just enjoy the story that's being told

  5. #35

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    Who cares. I like both and that's that.

  6. #36
    Peter Parker Darman456's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trallis View Post
    How about an option for "I don't care who's better, I am continuing to enjoy an ongoing story"

    Peter and Miles' first two arcs were completely different in pacing and planning. Obviously the original USM was some of the greatest spider-man material ever written. I'm enjoying Miles' story just as much. But you're asking a different question. Why would you ask who is the better spider-man, and then give an option for "I like both". Who we like better has nothing to do with who does a better job of being Spider-Man. It also has nothing to do with how good the story is. That's why I enjoy Ultimate Spider-Man. The story is great. It's not Peter or Miles that make it great, it's Bendis putting on his A-game and a series of incredible artists.

    I think Peter was doing a better job early on to be honest.. Miles had some trouble figuring out his powers, getting detained by SHIELD, his uncle manipulating him, etc. It's two completely different scenarios. But while I say Peter was doing a better job, I'm not voting in this poll.. because I don't think it's ever gonna end with you until you get everyone to say "Marvel made a huge mistake in killing off Peter Parker. They should bring him back to life somehow". What'll it be a few months from now? "Which Spider-Man was a better Spider-Man by the end of their third arc?" Just enjoy the story that's being told
    I'm pretty sure the option of "I Like Both" is there. And if I didn't provide a proper poll choice for you, just ignore it. If I provided a poll choice for every situation, I would have a lot of wasted time because the poll wouldn't let me post all of it.

    The whole point of this thread is a place for discussion and debate amongst Spider-Man fans over which Spider-Man is better. The "I Like Both" choice is actually meant to be a "They're both really good". But, see, I can't provide that without getting attacked by someone else. And, it is a point of personal preference because it is a personal idea of what it means to be Spider-Man. And that personal preference is different for each person and thus makes their favorite Spider-Man different from others. And it is the characters that make it great. I can deal with a really bad story as long as the characters are written like they should be. I liked "Death of a Goblin" and I thought that had to be one of the worst stories that could be told. But since the characters acted like they should've and how I would expect them to, I was fine with it. Heck, I don't mind the Ultimate Spider-Man arc of Ultimatum. I mind Loeb's main Ultimatum arc.

    And you're right, they are two completely different scenarios. But storywise, I don't think it matters. It matters who was the better Spider-Man. And I'm not talking about experience but I'm talking about what Spider-Man stands for and what the character is all about. And, as I said, that differentiates from person to person as it is an opinion. And this isn't a thread to attack Miles. If it was, I would've made the thread titled "Why Peter is SO much better than Miles". But, no, I made this thread so that Spider-Man fans, in general, could debate who made the better Spider-Man AT THIS POINT. And, yes, I think we may one day come to a point where we can argue their full runs and say who is a better Spider-Man, overall. No, I'm not going to post another thread of which Spider-Man was better by the third arc because that can be dealt with here. I hope I answered all your questions and will stop hating on me now.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    And why would "true Spider-Man" be defined by your persception of what a Spider-Man is? Thats like saying there can only be one kind of an Batman.
    What does Spider-Man stand for? I'm not saying there can only be one kind of Spider-Man. There are definitely differentiations that can be made with the character. But Bendis himself stated that were always going to be things that needed to stay the same for a Spider-Man character. And those are things that make Spider-Man, Spider-Man and the whole point of the discussion is to know who showed those things better. Obviously, people will have a different idea of what makes Spider-Man, Spider-Man. Bendis has a different idea than other people on what makes Spider-Man, Spider-Man. That's what made his take different. But, who better symbolizes the essence of Spider-Man for YOU?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadioActiveLunch View Post
    Who cares. I like both and that's that.
    And I respect your opinion.
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  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballard Blues View Post
    Tighty-whities as in white t-shirts and Hanes underwear? Honestly, I think Bagley's artwork is a result of a mentality that takes longer or doesn't want to catch up with the "evolving" times. There were still a lot of films and shows starting from 2000 to 2002 that still seemed steeped heavily in the fashion or trends of the 90s, not unlike how the early 90s still carried the fashion mentality of the 80s. At the same time there was an odd trend that started in 2000 with the desire for plastic/pleather pants and jackets, and everything being sterile hospital white with extremely heavy light contrasts (at least as far as teen shows, music and etc. were concerned). I'd give it a pass if it was isolated to Ben, May and Peter Parker, but everyone seems to be wearing similar fashions, so looking back at it now, the choice of clothing does make his art seem very dated.
    Like I said -- if you want a fashion magazine, get Pichelli. But her storytelling is not very good. Her panels don't flow well. Bagley's fashion sense might not be as good, but his storytelling is top-notch. You can draw pretty pictures all you want, but if you're not a good story-teller then you're not a good comic book artist. That's why I don't understand the people who were hating on Samnee's work on new USM. He was also better than Pichelli.

    Miles' book has a ways to go before it can even get close to the quality of the original run of USM. Maybe a new writer would do the trick.

  9. #39
    Pirate King MB99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroid View Post
    Like I said -- if you want a fashion magazine, get Pichelli. But her storytelling is not very good. Her panels don't flow well. Bagley's fashion sense might not be as good, but his storytelling is top-notch. You can draw pretty pictures all you want, but if you're not a good story-teller then you're not a good comic book artist. That's why I don't understand the people who were hating on Samnee's work on new USM. He was also better than Pichelli.

    Miles' book has a ways to go before it can even get close to the quality of the original run of USM. Maybe a new writer would do the trick.
    Interesting, out of curiosity what are your opinions on David Marquez?

  10. #40
    No time for white drama Ballard Blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroid View Post
    Like I said -- if you want a fashion magazine, get Pichelli. But her storytelling is not very good. Her panels don't flow well.
    Unfortunately, Pichelli's artwork is not the definition of "fashion magazine artwork", most of which typically caters to characterture or pop art (which isn't what Pichelli's artwork is in the least).
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  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroid View Post
    Like I said -- if you want a fashion magazine, get Pichelli. But her storytelling is not very good. Her panels don't flow well.
    I disagree .

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by MB99 View Post
    Interesting, out of curiosity what are your opinions on David Marquez?
    I don't much like his style. His characters are lifeless. They have dead eyes. They look posed and flat. But then, I don't like Jim Lee for the same reasons, and he's wildly popular. My opinions of Ms. Pichelli vs Mr. Bagley are just a matter of preference. As with all art, people judge comic book art on their own terms. Jack Kirby was better than Neal Adams to me, but lots and lots of people would rigorously disagree with me. I like comic book artists that focus more on telling the story than trying to wow their readers with technique. Some artists are good at both, but if they're going to be weak in one or the other, don't be weak in storytelling. Chris Samnee, Darwyn Cooke, Francis Manipul -- those are some of my favorite current artists.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daybreak_st View Post
    Love all your suggestions, especially the one with Rhino, that would've been great. I'm hoping someone like Judge finds out but not really his mom right now, especially considering the way his dad is. I do hope to see his parents more developed however. Also curious to see more of his family.
    Ah, but if the mom finds out it would progress that storyline quicker. Imagine, both parents having a disagreement over Miles. Seeing how Rio would react to her son exposing his life to danger would be incredible, on par with Earth-616 Peter meeting Earth-1610 Aunt May. That alone would add considerable stress to Miles and force his character to grow up and perhaps stand up to his father sooner. You can only drag out a storyline for so long before it loses effect.

  14. #44
    Senior Member Trallis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darman456 View Post
    And, it is a point of personal preference because it is a personal idea of what it means to be Spider-Man. And that personal preference is different for each person and thus makes their favorite Spider-Man different from others. And it is the characters that make it great. I can deal with a really bad story as long as the characters are written like they should be. I liked "Death of a Goblin" and I thought that had to be one of the worst stories that could be told. But since the characters acted like they should've and how I would expect them to, I was fine with it. Heck, I don't mind the Ultimate Spider-Man arc of Ultimatum. I mind Loeb's main Ultimatum arc.
    fair enough.. but the thing is, i think that if the characters are well written and you enjoy it because of that, that makes it a good story. What I'm saying is it can still be a very good story and be told very well even if the events in it are bad. Death of Spider-Man is a good example. It was extremely sad, and a ton of terrible things happened. It was still a great story. It was very well done. It seems like you feel like a story can be considered a bad story even though you enjoyed it. I don't really understand how you can say you enjoyed a story because the characters were well written, but it wasn't a good story. I'm realizing that what you mean by "good story" is "story with events that I want to happen" and a bad story is "story with events that I didn't want to happen". Whereas I think most people just consider a story good if they enjoy it. So on that, we're not gonna agree. But I thinnk we should agree to disagree because there's a fundamental difference in what we're each debating. I think you're debating "what's more important, good characters or good story".. while I'm debating "what makes a story good, likable characters and happy events, or well written characters and well written events". So there's really no point to us debating because we're really not even on the same page.

    And this isn't a thread to attack Miles. If it was, I would've made the thread titled "Why Peter is SO much better than Miles".
    I'm not sure that you would.

    I hope I answered all your questions and will stop hating on me now.
    Oh come on now, man. I don't hate you, and no one's attacking you. Every time someone disagrees with you you're in your victim stance. I'm sorry if I came off as rude, but I'm just getting tired of constantly seeing you make thread after thread with essentially the same purpose.. a platform for you to argue that Peter Parker shouldn't have been killed, or should be brought back because he's the better Spider-Man. If I'm wrong, and that wasn't your intent, I apologize. for saying that.. but really, I'm not trying to attack you. I'm just here debating stuff about comic books like you. That means we have a lot more in common than we differ on. I go into every forum argument assuming that both people know that to begin with.

  15. #45
    Peter Parker Darman456's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trallis View Post
    fair enough.. but the thing is, i think that if the characters are well written and you enjoy it because of that, that makes it a good story. What I'm saying is it can still be a very good story and be told very well even if the events in it are bad. Death of Spider-Man is a good example. It was extremely sad, and a ton of terrible things happened. It was still a great story. It was very well done. It seems like you feel like a story can be considered a bad story even though you enjoyed it. I don't really understand how you can say you enjoyed a story because the characters were well written, but it wasn't a good story. I'm realizing that what you mean by "good story" is "story with events that I want to happen" and a bad story is "story with events that I didn't want to happen". Whereas I think most people just consider a story good if they enjoy it. So on that, we're not gonna agree. But I thinnk we should agree to disagree because there's a fundamental difference in what we're each debating. I think you're debating "what's more important, good characters or good story".. while I'm debating "what makes a story good, likable characters and happy events, or well written characters and well written events". So there's really no point to us debating because we're really not even on the same page.
    In agreement on not arguing this any further. Plus, I did enjoy Death of Spider-Man. Characters (except for SHIELD, who I thought acted strangly) acted like I expected them to. And the story was also well-written. See, I think the combination of the two is what makes a story great. But, what I am saying is, that I would take good characters acting like they're supposed to in a bad circumstance over a good story any day. I know others would disagree but that's just what I feel makes a story enjoyable. The story itself might not be GOOD but I find it enjoyable if the characters act correctly.

    I'm not sure that you would.
    Trust me, I would. Back when Peter first died and Miles came out, I made threads that said "Why Peter shouldn't have been killed off". Granted, I didn't know what Bendis was going to do with the character and hardly waited to see it but I was angry and was venting. Now, I enjoy each character for seperate reasons. That's why I make these threads. It's for constructive debate. And my last thread and this one don't really have the same topic (though my other thread may have become derailed enough so that these two threads are practically the same since I haven't checked in on that thread in a while). But my intention is to debate two different things on two different threads.

    Oh come on now, man. I don't hate you, and no one's attacking you. Every time someone disagrees with you you're in your victim stance. I'm sorry if I came off as rude, but I'm just getting tired of constantly seeing you make thread after thread with essentially the same purpose.. a platform for you to argue that Peter Parker shouldn't have been killed, or should be brought back because he's the better Spider-Man. If I'm wrong, and that wasn't your intent, I apologize. for saying that.. but really, I'm not trying to attack you. I'm just here debating stuff about comic books like you. That means we have a lot more in common than we differ on. I go into every forum argument assuming that both people know that to begin with.
    You did come across a bit like you were attacking me but I am a little oversensitive as a teenager. I have the nature to make things out to mean that people are picking on me or attacking me when they are just disagreeing with me. So, I apoligize for even writing that. My intention is not to argue that Peter is the better Spider-Man and thus should be brought back. That's not my intention. As stated above, my intention is to provide a place for people of both camps to let out their disagreements and vent and talk to one another. But, I apoligize if my threads are coming across like that. But I also assure you that that is not my intention in the slightest. And I agree that we have more in common with one another than we don't. We both like comic books and Spider-Man. Though our thoughts may differ in some areas, we are still a lot alike and I agree with you in most cases. This thread, however, is where those differing thoughts come into play for the purpose of constructive disagreements. Also, I would like to apoligize once more for the unnecessary "you're attacking me, waa, waa" comment. I just had a LONG day. Breakup.
    "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

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