Why Does Marvel Hate Fantasy/Horror Comics?

[MuhollandDriver]

guess i gotta stick to DC then huh? if i want some dark titles

If you are wanting comics with that consistent tone, the sticking with the DC dark line is the way to go currently.

[Frank]

The thing is when people say marvel's horror books haven't done well, they often automatically assume that it's due to the apathy of the readers. In Blade's case, a lot of his solo books just weren't very good. Howling Commandos had little direction and the Midnight Sons were great stories but they managed to convolute all of their narratives making it very hard to miss even one issue. I believe Marvel gave up to easily on its horror books, this relaunch could be the only time to revitalize the corner...but Marvel doesn't seem to be interested in that.

It should be so simple though: go back to the books that have succeeded in the past and do more of that. Tomb of Dracula is probably the best horror/monster book there ever was. They made it character-driven, they made it more realistic, essentialy given a different feel than your usual super-hero book and it worked. I know it's not 1975 and it would need to be updated but why not pick up where they left off? Follow these characters, use the same formula, hire good creators that can capture this and try it. I think artists such as Brent Anderson or Butch Guice or Tom Mandrake would be perfect for it.

[Post Monster]

There's that issue of overhead, where books need to sell more to make money. DC's I Vampire is still sitting low on the charts for a Big Two book, and is likely to see cancellation in the next round of cuts. The problem is a lot of Big Two readers turn their noses up at anything related to vampires immediately dismissing Marvel and DC trying to get rich of the Twilight crowd. I heard a lot of that when I Vampire was first announced or when we found out that Gischler's first X-Men arc was about vampires. The content didn't matter, but people just weren't open to the ideas of vampires or maybe it was superheroes mixing with vampires. I don't know.

I guess that's always one thing to consider when talking about different genres at Marvel/DC. You could have a vampire book at Dark Horse or Image that sells quite a bit less than 20K and still run for a long time. At Marvel/DC that rarely happens as much because it eats away at profit.

Vampires and zombies at this point are horribly overused. Vampires at least come in flavors, but zombies are always exactly the same. Walking Dead does well because it isn't about the zombies.

If Marvel wants to do a good dark series:
1. Dump any notion of 80s black leather broody dark. It's not the 80s anymore. Also forget about zombies; they're overused and tiring at this point.

2. Get Dr Strange in it. He's ideal for dark without falling into all of the cliched stereotypes for dark characters. He's got serious personal flaws that he is aware of and is trying to fight, which is critical for a dark series. He's old enough to have some sense and not do teenage brooding crap (teenage brooding crap is annoying even to teens). He's got enough wisdom to be a decent mentor and focus for other characters. He even owns a large house that would make a perfect base for a team.

3. If you plan on doing horror, not everything should be horror or the readers get desensitized to it and it stops working. The world should feel normal and even have bright spots to make the horror even more horrifying. The problem with mixing dark and horror is that eventually the dark and the horror become normal, at which point it isn't horror anymore. Also, go play Amnesia: The Dark Descent, and come back after you've crawled out from under the table. It's the little things that add up to create the atmosphere.

4. Don't let characters dwell too much on their own issues. Introspection is fine, asking for help or discussing issues is fine, but I want to see the heroes take action to change the situation, not wallow in it.

5. Put in at least one light-hearted character to break up the tension. Dark all the time wears on everyone's nerves. Even dark characters should have fun, and not everything should be terrible all the time.

6. Get your team (assuming there is one) bonded as a family. Pay attention to group chemistry and roles and do not let the team devolve into a powder keg that requires eggshell walking. Batman wouldn't be selling like hotcakes if it didn't have an extended "family" that mostly gets along, has genuine emotional bonds, respects each other, and looks out for each other. The team needs to be the refuge from the storm, not the eye of the hurricane. Differentiate their personalities please. Who's the joker? The brawler? The shaman? Who is going to start fights first and jump into action? Who is going to approach things cautiously? Who will be blissfully unaware of danger? Who nurtures the group? Who gives the orders?

[Tracks]

I also don't understand why people believe that certain monsters are overused. Some of the biggest complaints are, "oh look at marvel trying to cash in on the vampire/zombie/werewolf success, i bet this is going to suck." It makes no sense to me, you don't hear people complaining about aliens/mutants/robots/dinosaurs/ninjas or the variety of other generic antagonists that pop up. But when marvel TRIES to use it's horror corner, people write it off instantly and think themselves too clever to be drawn in.

It should be so simple though: go back to the books that have succeeded in the past and do more of that. Tomb of Dracula is probably the best horror/monster book there ever was. They made it character-driven, they made it more realistic, essentialy given a different feel than your usual super-hero book and it worked. I know it's not 1975 and it would need to be updated but why not pick up where they left off? Follow these characters, use the same formula, hire good creators that can capture this and try it. I think artists such as Brent Anderson or Butch Guice or Tom Mandrake would be perfect for it.

I actually believe Marvel has set up the vampire corner up well. While some people may not like Gischler's work, he has created a very complex vampire universe with ties to various heroes. I don't think they could ever go back to Tomb of Dracula, but they could create something very similar and more modern, especially with the current uneasiness that surrounds big business. The fact that Brad the Vampire is some huge CEO is very intriguing in my opinion. The problem still is, Marvel seems to have forgotten what horror truly is.

[Post Monster]

I actually believe Marvel has set up the vampire corner up well. While some people may not like Gischler's work, he has created a very complex vampire universe with ties to various heroes. I don't think they could ever go back to Tomb of Dracula, but they could create something very similar and more modern, especially with the current uneasiness that surrounds big business. The fact that Brad the Vampire is some huge CEO is very intriguing in my opinion. The problem still is, Marvel seems to have forgotten what horror truly is.

I'll agree they mostly do fine with vampires, but the could do better. Company of Monsters was well done, and some of the best Dracula writing I've seen. Mostly because Busiek/Gregory got what vampires represent: aristocracy. The guys in charge who bleed society dry. As I understand it, it's not a normal part of canon. I'm still waiting for some gutsy person to make the connection between vampire blood drinking and the Christian communion ritual, with vamps being symbolic of the worst parts of human nature relying on their own power rather than God's. That's also part of what vampires are about.

Now if we can just find some writers who play with the Norse origin of the word "werewolf". It's actually an old slang term for bandits. Someone tell me why there's not a single comic out there featuring a gang of werewolves roving neighborhoods? *sigh*

The problem with overused monsters is that people develop a bad taste due to how poorly those monsters are used. Also, half the time, they're added to be cool, not because the author is planning on using the concept of myth to say something.

[aNamored]

Vampires and zombies at this point are horribly overused. Vampires at least come in flavors, but zombies are always exactly the same. Walking Dead does well because it isn't about the zombies.

If Marvel wants to do a good dark series:
1. Dump any notion of 80s black leather broody dark. It's not the 80s anymore. Also forget about zombies; they're overused and tiring at this point.

2. Get Dr Strange in it. He's ideal for dark without falling into all of the cliched stereotypes for dark characters. He's got serious personal flaws that he is aware of and is trying to fight, which is critical for a dark series. He's old enough to have some sense and not do teenage brooding crap (teenage brooding crap is annoying even to teens). He's got enough wisdom to be a decent mentor and focus for other characters. He even owns a large house that would make a perfect base for a team.

3. If you plan on doing horror, not everything should be horror or the readers get desensitized to it and it stops working. The world should feel normal and even have bright spots to make the horror even more horrifying. The problem with mixing dark and horror is that eventually the dark and the horror become normal, at which point it isn't horror anymore. Also, go play Amnesia: The Dark Descent, and come back after you've crawled out from under the table. It's the little things that add up to create the atmosphere.

4. Don't let characters dwell too much on their own issues. Introspection is fine, asking for help or discussing issues is fine, but I want to see the heroes take action to change the situation, not wallow in it.

5. Put in at least one light-hearted character to break up the tension. Dark all the time wears on everyone's nerves. Even dark characters should have fun, and not everything should be terrible all the time.

6. Get your team (assuming there is one) bonded as a family. Pay attention to group chemistry and roles and do not let the team devolve into a powder keg that requires eggshell walking. Batman wouldn't be selling like hotcakes if it didn't have an extended "family" that mostly gets along, has genuine emotional bonds, respects each other, and looks out for each other. The team needs to be the refuge from the storm, not the eye of the hurricane. Differentiate their personalities please. Who's the joker? The brawler? The shaman? Who is going to start fights first and jump into action? Who is going to approach things cautiously? Who will be blissfully unaware of danger? Who nurtures the group? Who gives the orders?

Great list, Post Monster. That sounds like a plan to me. Definitely tweak the magic rules and abilities too.

Many of those reasons are why I enjoyed Dan Brereton's The Nocturnals so much.

I would also hire a creative team that really enjoys dark fantasy/horror etc. Jeff Parker and Kev Walker would be a really good team for this. As they've proven in Thunderbolts, they can and will go there. And it's often a lot of fun and creepy when it has to be.

[AdamYJ]

Vampires and zombies at this point are horribly overused. Vampires at least come in flavors, but zombies are always exactly the same. Walking Dead does well because it isn't about the zombies.

Actually, zombies come in two types. There are the popular, people-eating George A. Romero Night of the Living Dead type zombies (the ones Romero actually called "ghouls"). Then there are the old-school undead servant voodoo zombies which are the type Marvel used back in the '70s (see Tales of the Zombie).

Honestly, most of Marvel's modern takes on horror just feel like superhero stories with horror archetypes inserted in. Legion of Monsters, for example.

[Rosebunse]

I don't think Marvel hates horror, I just think the writers know they don't know what to do with it. I think most of them honestly know they don't know what to do with it and don't want to ruin it.

We keep hearing how they want to bring in more horror elements, but those always fall to the way-side. Comics aren't cheap for anyone and if they can't sell, then, well, someone's out of the job or something. So I can see why they're hesitant to bring them back.

[Frank]

I also don't understand why people believe that certain monsters are overused. Some of the biggest complaints are, "oh look at marvel trying to cash in on the vampire/zombie/werewolf success, i bet this is going to suck." It makes no sense to me, you don't hear people complaining about aliens/mutants/robots/dinosaurs/ninjas or the variety of other generic antagonists that pop up. But when marvel TRIES to use it's horror corner, people write it off instantly and think themselves too clever to be drawn in.



I actually believe Marvel has set up the vampire corner up well. While some people may not like Gischler's work, he has created a very complex vampire universe with ties to various heroes. I don't think they could ever go back to Tomb of Dracula, but they could create something very similar and more modern, especially with the current uneasiness that surrounds big business. The fact that Brad the Vampire is some huge CEO is very intriguing in my opinion. The problem still is, Marvel seems to have forgotten what horror truly is.

meh what they have done so far have bored me. Have you seen their last take of Dracula? He looked like a goth reject from Underworld. And he was a good guy. They pretty much stripped away that was unique to them, Marvel had their own Dracula once and he was a pretty damn good character.

[Tracks]

meh what they have done so far have bored me. Have you seen their last take of Dracula? He looked like a goth reject from Underworld. And he was a good guy. They pretty much stripped away that was unique to them, Marvel had their own Dracula once and he was a pretty damn good character.

I really think people gave too much weight to the appearance. The real question should've have been whether his character changed, and the answer is no. The Death of Dracula one-shot was actually a pretty great read. What followed was questionable...some good issues and some bad. I hardly think you could characterize Dracula as a good guy. He has always been motivated by the preservation of his title and his people. I think Gischler stayed true to his motivations.

[jphamlore]

Gillen's entire run on Journey Into Mystery looks like it belongs to the horror genre.