I know im going to catch hell for this..... (Newbie Batman Question)

[Thaddeus Hutch]

The Long Halloween is a follow-up to Year One in that it's the next major storyline and it uses many of the same characters and themes from Year One. In the Batman chronology, though, it doesn't happen until one or two years after Year One. In between is where all Batman's supercriminal rogues start appearing. Batman's first encounter with the Joker takes place in the graphic novel Batman: The Man Who Laughs, as well as its immediate sequel, Batman: Dead to Rights. His first encounters with the Riddler, Poison Ivy, and the Scarecrow are shown in the collection Batman: Four of a Kind (although if I remember correctly some of those stories are ambiguously canon). There's also a Scarecrow: Year One comic, but I'm pretty sure it's out of continuity because of a contradiction with Two-Face's timeline or something. Mr. Freeze is not in The Long Halloween but he is in its sequel, Dark Victory, which you will probably want to read next, and he first appears in Batman: Snow (although I'm not sure if that story is completely canon either). But you don't really need to read those other stories to understand The Long Halloween, just know that all these crazies have started showing up since the end of Year One.

[TheGoshDarnBatman]

I know what you mean as far as wanting to get every part of the story, the problem is that most of the stories you're after don't exist. As far as I know, there are no Man Who Laughs style retellings of all the classic rogues' origins, at least ones that are still canon, and if they did there still wouldn't be a unified narrative. It's the nature of comics that there will be holes and gaps because there is no continuous narrative from Batman's beginnings to the 'present', so to speak. It's the nature of comics that stories cover individual cases and skip a bit of time between that and the next one.

[sdcomicnewb]

i think you guys are being really really helpful and i do appreciate that, but i believe you are missing my point. I do not just want to read the major story lines. i would never just start watching a tv series in the middle or pick up book 4 in an epic fantasy and just jump in. I want the WHOLE story. Does that mean i just need to read issue by issue?

edit: I made the decision to read batman because i wanted more Batman. I have seen all the movies and loved them. I absolutely loved year one. let me ask this instead. remember at the end of year one? Gordon is just standing there thinking to himself, about a madman that threatened to poison the water supply, but Gordon knew he had a friend to help him..... and thats it! where is what happens next?

[ticklefist]

Looks like you should have started at Batman #1 or perhaps even Detective Comics #27 instead of Batman #404. By not doing so you're just going to have to find some way to accept the holes that come about when you leapfrog 40+ years of stories.

[sdcomicnewb]

Looks like you should have started at Batman #1 or perhaps even Detective Comics #27 instead of Batman #404. By not doing so you're just going to have to find some way to accept the holes that come about when you leapfrog 40+ years of stories.

i guess i just assumed that since Year One was a reboot it would start over.

and if pre crisis really doesnt matter, what is a guy to do?

[Thaddeus Hutch]

If you follow this list you should hit all the major story arcs and plot points:

Year One
Catwoman: Her Sister's Keeper
Shaman
Batman and the Monster Men
Batman and the Mad Monk
Prey
The Man Who Laughs
Dead to Rights
Gothic
Four of a Kind
Rules of Engagement
Going Sane
Venom
The Long Halloween
Terror
Snow
Year Two: Fear the Reaper
Dark Victory
The Gauntlet
Robin: Year One
Batgirl: Year One
Tales of the Demon
Strange Apparitions
Nightwing: Year One
Son of the Demon
Ten Nights of the Beast
The Cult
Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth
The Killing Joke
A Death in the Family
A Lonely Place of Dying
Bride of the Demon
Robin: A Hero Reborn
Birth of the Demon
Sword of Azrael
Knightfall Volume One
Knightfall Volume Two: Knightquest
Knightfall Volume Three: KnightsEnd
Contagion
Legacy
Cataclysm
No Man’s Land Vol. 1
No Man’s Land Vol. 2
No Man’s Land Vol. 3
No Man’s Land Vol. 4
Bruce Wayne: Murderer?
Bruce Wayne: Fugitive Vol. 1
Bruce Wayne: Fugitive Vol. 2
Bruce Wayne: Fugitive Vol. 3
Hush
Hush Returns
Death and the Maidens
Year One: Batman/Ra’s al Ghul
War Drums
War Games Act 1: Outbreak
War Games Act 2: Tides
War Games Act 3: Endgame
Identity Crisis
Under the Hood Vol. 1
War Crimes
Under the Hood Vol. 2
Face the Face
Batman and Son
The Black Glove
The Resurrection of Ra’s al Ghul
Heart of Hush
Batman R.I.P.
Final Crisis
Battle for the Cowl
Batman Reborn
Batman vs. Robin
Time and the Batman
The Return of Bruce Wayne
Batman Must Die!
Batman Incorporated Vol. 1

This is just a list of TPB collections, though. There may be some uncollected single issues you want to read as well.

[sdcomicnewb]

so those are in order thad? should i just go read issue by issue after Year One?

edit: by the by, i cant seem to figure out how to send a PM. i figure it might be better than just wasting sppace here

[ticklefist]

i guess i just assumed that since Year One was a reboot it would start over.

I don't believe Batman's ever been rebooted actually, might be wrong on that. I always saw it as more of a retooling of the character. More of a retcon than a reboot. Might be wrong.

[sdcomicnewb]

I don't believe Batman's ever been rebooted actually, might be wrong on that. I always saw it as more of a retooling of the character. More of a retcon than a reboot. Might be wrong.

see how much of a newb i am? i dont even know what a retcon is

[Thaddeus Hutch]

Yeah that is more or less the correct chronological order. In some cases it's hard to tell because there are contradictions or a lack of reference points, but if you go in that order I think you'll hit everything important that's been collected in TPB form.

[sdcomicnewb]

Yeah that is more or less the correct chronological order. In some cases it's hard to tell because there are contradictions or a lack of reference points, but if you go in that order I think you'll hit everything important that's been collected in TPB form.

maybe i just need to start at issue 1 and go from there

edit: no sure about that though, at the risk of sounding like a heritic, dont really like the art from back then

[Thaddeus Hutch]

You can't really do that though because the stories weren't written in chronological order. The first issue of Year One is actually Batman #404, for instance. If you go issue by issue you'll not only be jumping back and forth all over the timeline, it will also take you literally years to read. If you're looking to get the complete story in chronological order, I would follow the list I posted, because that's really all the major stuff. Then later if you still want more you can go back and read the lesser stories that don't really affect anything.

For your other post, retcon means "retroactive continuity," meaning that the events of the story or what they meant were retroactively changed by new stories. As for how that concerns Batman, most people agree that Crisis on Infinite Earths didn't entirely reboot Batman, because a number of post-Crisis stories reference pre-Crisis stories as if they were still in continuity. So the rule of thumb is that all Silver Age stories still happened in the continuity of the post-Crisis Batman unless they're explicitly contradicted by post-Crisis stories. So the origin of Jason Todd, the second Robin, was completely rewritten after COIE, but things like Batman having a child with Talia al Ghul are still in continuity.

[doordoor123]

Lol "flamed". I thought you were coming out.

[Ginkasa]

i think you guys are being really really helpful and i do appreciate that, but i believe you are missing my point. I do not just want to read the major story lines. i would never just start watching a tv series in the middle or pick up book 4 in an epic fantasy and just jump in. I want the WHOLE story. Does that mean i just need to read issue by issue?

edit: I made the decision to read batman because i wanted more Batman. I have seen all the movies and loved them. I absolutely loved year one. let me ask this instead. remember at the end of year one? Gordon is just standing there thinking to himself, about a madman that threatened to poison the water supply, but Gordon knew he had a friend to help him..... and thats it! where is what happens next?

Unfortunately, this just isn't how comics work; at least, that isn't how long-running superhero comics work. There isn't a "whole story," beginning to end type thing. There isn't a "volume 1" that leads into "volume 2" that will eventually lead you to present day. Let's look at Year One for example. This is what you're using as you're beginning of the "whole story." However, this was originally published in the "Batman" monthly series as issues 404 - 407 in 1987. There's over 400 issues prior to your beginning of the story and that's not even counting Detective Comics and other series that featured Batman.

Even if you decide to ignore everything published previously (it was, basically, a soft reboot) and go at it issues by issue following Batman #407, you're still not going to get a linear, complete story. Issues #408 (and the next few issues) depict the origin of Jason Todd, Batman's second Robin. You've just skipped years in terms of story time. Even worse is that Jason Todd technically appeared before this with a different origin prior to Year One. This was just his re-introduction. Of course, you don't get anything in regards to that hanging plot thread from the end of Year One (which is just intended a reference to the Joker and not actually intended to be followed up on in a sequel) either. Issues following Jason's origin largely go forward from that point in time, ignoring many of years between Year One and that since they were largely covered in comics published earlier (but, again, not in a sequential "this is a whole, contained story" sort of manner).

Granted, a lot of authors covered those years after Year One later and many of those stories do tie into each other and reference each other in small ways. Much of the time, though, these references were meant as merely fan service and, once more, don't really glue the various stories into one whole. Thaddeus's list above does provide a pretty good reading order and you will see a more or less sequential forward movement in story time reading in that order. However, you will still run across inconsistencies and contradictions (for example, I'm pretty sure the Batmobile makes it "first appearance" several times in a few of those "early" books). There are also what could be considered "plot holes." Villains and characters will end up in different situations than their last appearance, or stories will be referenced that were never told. You also have to keep in mind that the stories were published at different times and by many various authors and artists. Styles will change radically from book to book. Some of the earlier published stories (like Strange Apparitions and Tales of the Demon) were published prior to Batman Year One (despite taking place "after") and clearly are using a different mindset to tell their stories.

Anyway, my point is, there is not a master "Batman" story that goes from beginning to end. Just a whole lot of self-contained stories that occasionally reference each other. The list above will help guide you through Batman world, but it won't provide that "whole story" you're looking for.

[sdcomicnewb]

Unfortunately, this just isn't how comics work; at least, that isn't how long-running superhero comics work. There isn't a "whole story," beginning to end type thing. There isn't a "volume 1" that leads into "volume 2" that will eventually lead you to present day. Let's look at Year One for example. This is what you're using as you're beginning of the "whole story." However, this was originally published in the "Batman" monthly series as issues 404 - 407 in 1987. There's over 400 issues prior to your beginning of the story and that's not even counting Detective Comics and other series that featured Batman.

Even if you decide to ignore everything published previously (it was, basically, a soft reboot) and go at it issues by issue following Batman #407, you're still not going to get a linear, complete story. Issues #408 (and the next few issues) depict the origin of Jason Todd, Batman's second Robin. You've just skipped years in terms of story time. Even worse is that Jason Todd technically appeared before this with a different origin prior to Year One. This was just his re-introduction. Of course, you don't get anything in regards to that hanging plot thread from the end of Year One (which is just intended a reference to the Joker and not actually intended to be followed up on in a sequel) either. Issues following Jason's origin largely go forward from that point in time, ignoring many of years between Year One and that since they were largely covered in comics published earlier (but, again, not in a sequential "this is a whole, contained story" sort of manner).

Granted, a lot of authors covered those years after Year One later and many of those stories do tie into each other and reference each other in small ways. Much of the time, though, these references were meant as merely fan service and, once more, don't really glue the various stories into one whole. Thaddeus's list above does provide a pretty good reading order and you will see a more or less sequential forward movement in story time reading in that order. However, you will still run across inconsistencies and contradictions (for example, I'm pretty sure the Batmobile makes it "first appearance" several times in a few of those "early" books). There are also what could be considered "plot holes." Villains and characters will end up in different situations than their last appearance, or stories will be referenced that were never told. You also have to keep in mind that the stories were published at different times and by many various authors and artists. Styles will change radically from book to book. Some of the earlier published stories (like Strange Apparitions and Tales of the Demon) were published prior to Batman Year One (despite taking place "after") and clearly are using a different mindset to tell their stories.

Anyway, my point is, there is not a master "Batman" story that goes from beginning to end. Just a whole lot of self-contained stories that occasionally reference each other. The list above will help guide you through Batman world, but it won't provide that "whole story" you're looking for.

whoa, rough. i guess i opened a whole can of worms when i decided to read Batman lol. well. i guess ill just continue diving in. Thanks for all the help guys. i really do appreciate it. im sure you can understand how overwheling it can all be, and coming from a different sort of literary arena to this one causes need for a bit of adjustment lol