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  1. #31
    Releasing Johnny's torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    When one of the Phoenix Five is an Atlantean in your summer event, and you show all the epic ways they are remaking the world into a better place, but you can't show a SINGLE panel of a remade underwater city -- there's ZERO interest there on the part of the editors and creators. It's clear they find a field of wheat more amazingly cool than an alien, mysterious, mystical, magical science tech underwater city.
    Agreed. I was speculating that since Hickman is one of the writers and expanded on Atlantis in FF, Namor would do something underwater and even address the Old Atlanteans issue. But I guess that's off the table, probably because it was meant to be resolved in FF before editorial edict forced this change of writers and cutting Hickman's run on FF before he can return to Atlantis.
    Johnny Storm was dead; who is this resurrected Johnny Storm?
    "Here, hold my Annihilus…" Johnny Storm, Fantastic Four #601

  2. #32
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Namorita is back (sort of), Frankie Raye is back (sort of), why are Johnny's ex'es coming back? Let's have Lyja come back and then have a girls' night out with all three.
    This would go badly for Johnny.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Agreed. I was speculating that since Hickman is one of the writers and expanded on Atlantis in FF, Namor would do something underwater and even address the Old Atlanteans issue. But I guess that's off the table, probably because it was meant to be resolved in FF before editorial edict forced this change of writers and cutting Hickman's run on FF before he can return to Atlantis.
    Don't get me started on the Old Atlanteans, Sue's regency and things left unfinished in Hickman's FF. More opportunities for the Atlanteans just wasted.

  3. #33
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will.S View Post
    Well look at what happens to Namor and Namora.

    Marvel put out a post Civil War Namor mini which was pretty fun and seemed to do decent in sales. Then they put out an ongoing (although tied to Curse of the Mutants unfortunately) but the ongoing didn't have enough traction to continue. Marvel also put out Agents of Atlas which had Namora and she had a lot of appearances in Pak/Van Lente's works as well as a one shot and a place in Avengers 1959 but not enough fans supported that stuff either.

    I bought ALL of that since I think Namor and Namora are great characters but I think a lot of the blame can be put on the comic buying public who don't give too many other characters a chance so Marvel keeps putting these guys on teams instead. I hope to see Namorita again in a prominent fashion since I was bigger fan of her than Namora but I'm glad she's around there somewhere just waiting to be used too rather than dead.
    While I understand fans have to share part of the blame, it's Marvel's job to make the market, the demand for their products and characters. If fans don't give characters or books a chance, that's in part due to the environment Marvel has created or supported, i.e. a book / character has to be 'important' to be 'worthy' of buying. You only have to look at what Geoff Johns and DC did with Aquaman in comparison to Marvel's treatment of Namor.

    Namor's last ongoing was really the only one of those titles that was focused on creating a story for Namor, and it's no surprise it didn't get any traction. It had an unknown writer, art problems, alienating fans, no 'importance' in the MU or even in the X-Men corner of the MU, poor support, etc. -- exemplified by Axel Alonso mentioning the book in passing as a one-shot for Curse of the Mutants in a Cup of Joe.

    Sub-Mariner Revolution was focused on Namor also, but it was really just set up for Bendis' Cabal -- which ended up doing little, either as a group of individually. It actually reminded me of the '84 mini, which was set up for Namor joining the Avengers.

    But Namor hasn't shown up in any cartoons since Fantastic Four. His last game was Ultimate Alliance, and he's not part of the recent Phoenix Five addition to Avengers Alliance. But they do still make toys and statues -- while Namora and Namorita have even less / no appearances outside comics.

    And Namora's appearances, with the exception of Parker's Atlas, certainly weren't about pushing her, either.


    I do have to wonder, how much of Namorita's limbo is due to the false perception that she and Namora are similar?

  4. #34
    Kiss My Axe! aNamored's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    While I understand fans have to share part of the blame, it's Marvel's job to make the market, the demand for their products and characters. If fans don't give characters or books a chance, that's in part due to the environment Marvel has created or supported, i.e. a book / character has to be 'important' to be 'worthy' of buying. You only have to look at what Geoff Johns and DC did with Aquaman in comparison to Marvel's treatment of Namor.

    Namor's last ongoing was really the only one of those titles that was focused on creating a story for Namor, and it's no surprise it didn't get any traction. It had an unknown writer, art problems, alienating fans, no 'importance' in the MU or even in the X-Men corner of the MU, poor support, etc. -- exemplified by Axel Alonso mentioning the book in passing as a one-shot for Curse of the Mutants in a Cup of Joe.
    So very true, if Johns, Reis and DC can make Aquaman fun, relevant and one of the most successful books in the DCnuniverse, what is Marvel's problem? Folks do not buy Namor, Doctor Strange when they are given zilch respect, care or a marketing push. All characters are important and many would sell wonderfully if Marvel found the right pitch and team. Presently, they seem NOT to want to push anything beyond noir superheroes and the same two teams. I wish they would open their minds....
    Who squeezed the Shaman?

  5. #35
    Star Blazer Will.S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    While I understand fans have to share part of the blame, it's Marvel's job to make the market, the demand for their products and characters. If fans don't give characters or books a chance, that's in part due to the environment Marvel has created or supported, i.e. a book / character has to be 'important' to be 'worthy' of buying. You only have to look at what Geoff Johns and DC did with Aquaman in comparison to Marvel's treatment of Namor.

    Namor's last ongoing was really the only one of those titles that was focused on creating a story for Namor, and it's no surprise it didn't get any traction. It had an unknown writer, art problems, alienating fans, no 'importance' in the MU or even in the X-Men corner of the MU, poor support, etc. -- exemplified by Axel Alonso mentioning the book in passing as a one-shot for Curse of the Mutants in a Cup of Joe.

    Sub-Mariner Revolution was focused on Namor also, but it was really just set up for Bendis' Cabal -- which ended up doing little, either as a group of individually. It actually reminded me of the '84 mini, which was set up for Namor joining the Avengers.

    But Namor hasn't shown up in any cartoons since Fantastic Four. His last game was Ultimate Alliance, and he's not part of the recent Phoenix Five addition to Avengers Alliance. But they do still make toys and statues -- while Namora and Namorita have even less / no appearances outside comics.

    And Namora's appearances, with the exception of Parker's Atlas, certainly weren't about pushing her, either.


    I do have to wonder, how much of Namorita's limbo is due to the false perception that she and Namora are similar?
    I agree about Marvel not having put a little more effort in giving Namor a higher profile creative team.

    Marvel definitely could have gotten a bigger sales draw from a Bendis or Brubaker instead of Stuart Moore which is not to say that Stuart didn't try to put his best foot forward to make the title succeed but there's only so much you can do for sales when you're not as much of a known quantity. Still, I think Marvel tries to push the character wherever they can by including him in the Illuminati/Dark Reign stuff and events such as with The Deep during Fear Itself and I think he tends to shine in either guest appearances or in team settings. This is the first time I've seen Namor feature in an event as highly in profile as he has in AvX although I understand your frustrations with the limited amount of coverage that they gave him.

    Media wise I agree about not using him more either as I would have liked to have seen him in the Avengers cartoon or in more videogames at least. Namora's kind of a different case in that nobody really expected nor clamored for her when she first came back as I think Parker had come up with some far fetched comebacks for some of the AoA but I'm glad she was able to be used as prominently as she has so far as I've become a big fan of the character and loved the addition of her into the Namor "family" if you will.

    You got me on the Namorita/Namora thing though, I've been wanting to see them reunited ever since we saw Namora mourn the loss of Namorita during the Civil War stuff.

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