Buffy, Angel & Faith question

[darthjoker]

Hi, I wanted to post this at the DH buffy boards, but 1, the place is almost deserted and 2, for no reason the validation email does not get send by their system.
SO maybe someone here who is reading Buffy, but more importantly Angel & Faith can help me.

I have read, and asked before, whatever IDW Angel and Spike comics are still in continuity. Because when IDW was doing them, Joss Whedon said that the last Angel series from IDW was the official season of Angel after the show ended. Just like Buffy season 8 was by DH comics.
There is an interview in which current DH BUffy/Angel writers says: "yeah, those stories (IDW) are still cannon".
IDW made a good effort with their last spike series (which just got a TPB from IDW this month) in putting their story as part of the continuity since only in IDW's comic you can get the story about why spike has a space ship with bugs. Said space ship, appeared before in buffy but didnt get an explanation. So IDW got to make the explantion.
But the major problem I have are with Angel & Faith latest issues. WIllow shows up and ask for help from Connor. BUT now, when they go to him with Angel, suddenly all of the AFTER THE FALL season got erased/reboot/reckoned Connor is not running angel investigations, Gunn has 2 eyes again. Lorn is alive, no beta george, or the watcher girl. nothing. Its as if all that after the fall story never happened.
Nobody even explained how angel was twilight while running angel investagation in LA. I always tought that MAYBE the Twilight thing was AFTER IDW's series. But no. with the latest 2 angel & faith comics, everything got erased.
So, anyone reading this and the IDW's can make any sense, is simply IDW out of continuity?
if yes, does that means that sooner or later, DH will make me buy a new "in continuity" after the fall series, in which even spike's ship's origin is retold?
In last month's buffy letter colum in the comic, there is a question to whatever changed to the original plan for season 9. The answer was that the original idea was having buffy in a cosmic adventure. but got scrapped in the last minute for what is currently being published as season 9. So maybe there was in fact another explanation for spike's space ship, that would have made IDW's explanation out of continuity.

I liked what IDW did, Joss said he liked, and that's why he made sure to named it as the official next season for angel. He even is credited in those comics as Executive Supervisor, just like in Buffy's.
I am reading the current Angel & Faith series, but with each issues I feel like DH wants to make me in the future spend money in a story that was already told and I bought (after the fall). In fact that would be the 3rd time, IDW's firt angel series was said to be out of continuity.
and I hear there is an upcoming Spike and Willow ongoing for 2013.
Altought it seems that the current series are not selling as well as the previous Buffy season.

Can someone made any sense of the Buffyverse continuity? any help?
Thanks.

[zlbenson]

Hey - I didn't read the entire IDW run of Angel because it just didn't gel with me, but I did read the initial After the Fall stuff.

The folks at DH have said that the IDW still happened - and the writers Sort-of reference things that may have happened, but I think thats more of lip service then any of the writers really making sure it lines up. They've made passing references to what happened in LA with the hell on earth stuff but thats about it. My feeling is that maybe Christos Gage isn't really worrying about that stuff. Which kind of sucks for folks like you who enjoyed that IDW run.

For whats its worth, I don't think they are necessarily telling the same story over again - this Angel and Faith is definitely taking place after the time that all the IDW stuff happened, but some of the consequences of that run might be kind of falling to wayside.

My guess is the only thing that will REALLY hold over is that Wesley ain't ever coming back.

Also I should mention that I am REALLY enjoying the Angel and Faith book, more so than any other previous buffyverse comic.

[darthjoker]

Ok, thanks for the answer. It does help me.
and that's what is strangest to me. Its seems its maybe editorial the decision to ignore most of IDW's continuity. Because Christos Cage, puts lots of attention to continuity at marvel. His Avengers Academy book make lots of refereces to previous stories. The only time I have seen something not matching previous stories, has been Hercules costume. Both that might be either editorial, the artist, or simply Herc when back to his traditional costume. In any case Mr. C. Cage seems to know and acknoledge whatever happened before at marvel, but he is not doing the same at Dark Horse. So maybe its an editorial decision.
That said I think Mr. Cage is a good writer, and I like his work.

just out of curiosity why do you think Wesley will never come back? they already revived Lorne.

[zlbenson]

just out of curiosity why do you think Wesley will never come back? they already revived Lorne.

Decisions like that come down to Joss, and I just get the feeling that he won't be bringing him back. Much like he won't be bringing back Tara, or Anya or any of the other folks who died. Now, with Lorne, I should go back and read - did they explicitly say he was alive? Or was it more obtuse?

I actually didn't know he died while over at IDW, I just knew the real life actor died - so maybe they wanted to shelve the character out of respect or something.

[tylenoljones]

Decisions like that come down to Joss, and I just get the feeling that he won't be bringing him back. Much like he won't be bringing back Tara, or Anya or any of the other folks who died. Now, with Lorne, I should go back and read - did they explicitly say he was alive? Or was it more obtuse?

I actually didn't know he died while over at IDW, I just knew the real life actor died - so maybe they wanted to shelve the character out of respect or something.

I had no idea that even the real life Lorne died.... Kind of bummed out now. Was hoping he'd show up somewhere down the line.

But on topic, I also never really followed the IDW Angle stuff except in the very beginning, so i'm not sure why there seem to be so many inconsistencies, but with the creators involved, I wouldn't be surprised if we get an answer later on down the line.

[Roxytronics]

I too noticed this inconsistency...and it was one of many between comics, shows and even between panels. Cases in point:

1) The "Twilight" storyline made little to no sense to a lot of fans in the first place. Two measly panels of actual breakdown from Angel on just how the holy H E double hockey sticks he became some flying weirdo taking out Slayers and mystical beings so he and Buffy could, ...seriously, make with the cosmic sex universe I know Angel was hard up (pun intended) for some of that Buffy vajayjay, but that seems extreme (I mean, it couldn't be that awesome if that lame-o, captain eyebrows/Parker, hit it and quit it in season 3 of Buffy). From the fan reactions in the Slay the Critics and in the forums, I was not the only one re-reading comics to gain a sense of clarity, scratching my head, and wondering what the writers were smoking when they wrote that into season 8...and where I might get me some.

1) Fred is referred to as being in heaven by Lorne in "After the Fall," and is SPOILER* brought back to life, albeit a Schizo shared one, with Illyria when it was explained in the show both during and directly after "Shell" that her soul was consumed and destroyed by Illyria in order to create the energy needed to occupy the host body in this dimension-no afterlife for you! What was more, this information was passed to Angel by an immortal who could not lie and was entirely in the know, so no wiggle room (hence, why they didn't keep trying to get Fred back and why it was even more tragic than a mere death would be since in the Whedonverse, dying is not a super big obstacle to resurrecting characters left and right-as Angel pointed out himself).

2) What is the worse, though, is that not all the artists on "After the Fall" seemed to get the memo that Gunn was rocking the Xander look (could have gone with a missing hand for some cool hook action, but we did that one with Lyndsey...we seem to be running out of creative ways to scar & maim characters dramatically while keeping them bada**). I found myself pretty generally confused when Gunn would go from panel to panel and book to book with alternating dos eyeball havingness. I figured maybe it was a vampire Gunn to human Gunn, or even lumpy-faced vampire Gunn to just plain ol' vampire Gunn, but no joy upon closer inspection.

I chalk all this up to the way various writers and artists in a long series (be it comic, television, or a combination of both) have very different visions. At times, perhaps, they also have a bit of ego about conforming to a storyline over their vision. I am not positing that the series must then suck (much like Hellblazer was a fabulous series despite the completely random and unexplained reincarnation of a few characters in the series. Me: "Hey wasn't that guy/girl just dead like 5 issues ago, and definitely in the past? Guess (s)he's back. Gonna explain that?" Writers: "Nope, but look at how awesome we are at illustrating the evil that is Thatcherian progressivism!" Me: "Too right! Annoyed, but satisfaction prevails. Now make with some graphic death scenes for those d**n Tories! Ahhh, catharsis." ), but I agree that sometimes it makes for some undue reader confusion, and occasionally some wicked geek tirades for my husband to sit through while pretending to be super
supportive and engaged.

[MagSeven]

2) What is the worse, though, is that not all the artists on "After the Fall" seemed to get the memo that Gunn was rocking the Xander look (could have gone with a missing hand for some cool hook action, but we did that one with Lyndsey...we seem to be running out of creative ways to scar & maim characters dramatically while keeping them bada**). I found myself pretty generally confused when Gunn would go from panel to panel and book to book with alternating dos eyeball havingness. I figured maybe it was a vampire Gunn to human Gunn, or even lumpy-faced vampire Gunn to just plain ol' vampire Gunn, but no joy upon closer inspection.

I chalk all this up to the way various writers and artists in a long series (be it comic, television, or a combination of both) have very different visions. At times, perhaps, they also have a bit of ego about conforming to a storyline over their vision. I am not positing that the series must then suck (much like Hellblazer was a fabulous series despite the completely random and unexplained reincarnation of a few characters in the series. Me: "Hey wasn't that guy/girl just dead like 5 issues ago, and definitely in the past? Guess (s)he's back. Gonna explain that?" Writers: "Nope, but look at how awesome we are at illustrating the evil that is Thatcherian progressivism!" Me: "Too right! Annoyed, but satisfaction prevails. Now make with some graphic death scenes for those d**n Tories! Ahhh, catharsis." ), but I agree that sometimes it makes for some undue reader confusion, and occasionally some wicked geek tirades for my husband to sit through while pretending to be super
supportive and engaged.

At the end of After the Fall, time was remade so that Gunn never lost the eye in the alley fight. I agree with your other points though. The whole Buffyverse has become an overly complicated mess.