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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebon View Post
    I think the reason is this: the level of plotting and writing in comics has generally sunk to a pretty low level. When someone like Morrison comes along who is (1) at least half-way competant at writing and (2) is willing to learn and incorporate and update some classic elements, people are going to go wild for him or her. The state of comics now is the state of science fiction in the Fifties: it relies on the Cool Idea and as long as the Cool Idea is there, people are willing to forget and forgive all the other stuff. Morrison is a master of the Cool Idea and by gosh if there is enough of them, the Cool Idea can carry a book just like a good artist can carry a bad writer. For a time. Now, Morrison is certainly not alone in this, but unlike most of the others there is a little more substance to what he does and that add substancially to his popularity.
    nah it has more to do with actual progressive storytelling and brilliant almost altruistic attempts to improve superheroes. there's an almost spooky level of understanding understanding of who these heroes are, what they would do, what they need, where they should go. and at the same time, subversive counterculture ideas (as well as crackling jack kirby sort of sci-fi magic) usually manage to work their way in there too. so there's a sort of william burroughs-esque method writing that puts him beyong what most other writers even attempt on one hand, and just better ideas on the other. plus, there's tons of replay value if you will, rereads are incredibly rewarding, so there's this huge audience that feels like they're getting so much more for their buck.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey Sense View Post
    Once the context of depth has been added, some automatically give him the benefit of the doubt and go out of their way to look for hidden meaning.
    this is so rare it's excusable.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwydion View Post
    "Almost as if he's on something?"

    You hit on what is probably one of his problems; he IS on something. Several somethings in fact. Much of the time. He cops to it.

    It might help him get trippy ideas, but I'm fairly sure it interferes with coherent, logical execution of said ideas.
    false. kindof insulting also.

  4. #34
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    It's not false in the case of Invisibles. But it was awesome, probably because he was out of his head whilst writing it.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Eumenides's Avatar
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    I haven't been amazed by Grant Morrison's work since the 2000s. His last great work was The Filth, perhaps. I'll always look at his past work with affection and respect, but his takes on Batman and Superman are a waste of his great talents, and things like Seaguy and We3 are just ideas crudely cobbled together. I'm also getting very, very tired of his ego and his personality, name-calling Fantagraphics and Chris Ware for no reason, writing Supergods, which was an ode to all the times corporate comics screwed creators, his ridiculous defense of Brad Meltzer (anyone who uses the adjective Joycean to describe Identity Crisis is suffering from dementia), his blindness to his own shortcomings - I continue to wait for a brave interviewer to list, one by one, every instance of rape in his own comics, right in his hypocrite face! -, and his constant attacks on Alan Moore, which Moore is courteous and mature enough to ignore, it all just makes me feel fatigued with Morrison and his work.

  6. #36
    All Caste Warrior JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Look, before I get flamed by fanboys of this particular writer, I just want to say that I will always respect Grant for his classics like his work on 52 and All Star Superman, which is one of my favorite stories ever. However, that doesn't mean that everything he puts to paper is genius. Am I the only one who thought his Action Comics has been only okay and is severely overrated?
    No, you're not the only one. I read one issue of Action and while I found it to be interesting it wasn't interesting enough for me to keep buying. I was willing to give Morrison a try because of his work on All Star Superman and on Batman and Robin even though I'm not really a fan of the majority of his work but Action just didn't do it for me.

    My main problem with most of his work is that it seems to be missing something though I'm not entirely sure what it is. It really bothers me it some extent because I ordinarily like stories of the type that he writes, I love having to really dig into a story to figure out things and I absolutely love that Morrison can take a forgotten piece of history and bring it back into the light. For some reason though I haven't liked the majority of his work because of its missing something that I guess must be criticial for me it be able to enjoy it.
    Characters come and go, revamped and revisited. But as long as you enjoyed them, remember them and continue to appreciate them, then that character, your hero or heroine, will always exist.

  7. #37
    Cyclops Is Right Kiryu's Avatar
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    Because the dude is a great writer who tells enthralling, interesting, fun, and often serious and dark stories. He blends so many genres together, he makes things work that shouldn't. His characters don't ever stand around explaining their motivations to one another(and the audience). He's a fantastic storyteller.
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  8. #38

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    "Once the context of depth has been added, some automatically give him the benefit of the doubt and go out of their way to look for hidden meaning."

    Quote Originally Posted by direction9 View Post
    this is so rare it's excusable.
    Try conspiracy theorists.. but in Morrison's case it's not quite excusable when I have to read all the gushing games of connect the dots about final crisis, etc. Looking for things that are more shadow and mirror, or purely cerebral whispers shoved onto an unstreamlined n cluttered narrative.

    The comment about him being akin to a jazz musician / improvisation works.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey Sense View Post
    "Once the context of depth has been added, some automatically give him the benefit of the doubt and go out of their way to look for hidden meaning."



    Try conspiracy theorists.. but in Morrison's case it's not quite excusable when I have to read all the gushing games of connect the dots about final crisis, etc. Looking for things that are more shadow and mirror, or purely cerebral whispers shoved onto an unstreamlined n cluttered narrative.

    The comment about him being akin to a jazz musician / improvisation works.
    none of those are poeple making it up though, they're picking up on things that are actually there that maybe you aren't seeing. it's all pretty calculated, not really jazz improv at all.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by direction9 View Post
    none of those are poeple making it up though, they're picking up on things that are actually there that maybe you aren't seeing. it's all pretty calculated, not really jazz improv at all.
    No, it is absolutely improv, but that doesn't diminish the intelligence of what he's doing, or the complexity of it.

    Morrison has flatly stated in pitches and in interviews that he gets his best ideas when he's in the midst of writing his work, the nitty gritty. That's why he doesn't do final dialog and narration until he sees the artwork. The whole concept of the Giant Bat in Batman: Return of Bruce Wayne, for instance, was born of Andy Kubert's design work.

    But improvisation doesn't mean throwing things against the wall randomly and hoping they stick. He understands the greater themes he's playing at, the feelings he's trying to invoke, the statements he's trying to make in a broad sense, and he understands fundamentally how to do it. You can only improvise well when you have an almost instinctual, and complete, command over the form you're working in.

    But he's not starting his books with intricate graphic representations of plot points and character interactions for the next 63 issues. He doesn't know how every bit is going to play out. That's Hickman, and Moore. That isn't Morrison or Gaiman.
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  11. #41
    Senior Member Eumenides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by direction9 View Post
    nothing about alan moore is courteous or mature
    If that's your belief, so be it. But tell me instances of Alan Moore going out of his way to attack Grant Morrison? I only remember one case, when he compared Arkham Asylum to dog shit. Otherwise Moore remains silent on this so-called rivalry. But Morrison has an obsession that he won't let go. He attacks him in his book, in his comics, and in his interviews.

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eumenides View Post
    If that's your belief, so be it. But tell me instances of Alan Moore going out of his way to attack Grant Morrison? I only remember one case, when he compared Arkham Asylum to dog shit. Otherwise Moore remains silent on this so-called rivalry. But Morrison has an obsession that he won't let go. He attacks him in his book, in his comics, and in his interviews.
    His Supreme run had a reoccurring element that was a long form, continuous and frankly heavy handed attack on Grant Morrison.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eumenides View Post
    If that's your belief, so be it. But tell me instances of Alan Moore going out of his way to attack Grant Morrison? I only remember one case, when he compared Arkham Asylum to dog shit. Otherwise Moore remains silent on this so-called rivalry. But Morrison has an obsession that he won't let go. He attacks him in his book, in his comics, and in his interviews.
    They're not really rivals though. For one thing, they're not really contemporaries. Morrison was still an aspiring writer when Moore already broke out. Moore said he when he first met Morrison, he had read his 2000 AD. He said he thought it was derivative of his own work, but he would grow out of it.

    Secondly, Morrison's so-called "attacks" are just him respectfully disagreeing. The fact that Moore does less criticizing of Morrison's stuff is just more of an indication of how he doesn't really read other people's comics anymore, whereas Morrison is more active in reading other peoples' work and being vocal about it.

    Moore is always taking the piss out of other writers. The idea that he doesn't regularly talk about Morrison because he's being courteous in this rivalry is just silly and badly misinformed.

  14. #44
    Senior Member Eumenides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desaad View Post
    His Supreme run had a reoccurring element that was a long form, continuous and frankly heavy handed attack on Grant Morrison.
    Ridiculous! The British guy who writes Omniman was, if anything, a parody of Alan Moore, or at least the perception some people have of Moore, the British writer who comes to American comics, turns superheroes all grimdark and completely re-writes their origins, gutting them of everything wondrous and funny. And, considering Supreme was a comic book about the comics industry as much as it was about superheroes, it wasn't out of place because at that time, comics really were full of British guys turning superheroes grimdark and re-writing their origins. It was an excellent commentary on the entire industry, it wasn't about Morrison.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eumenides View Post
    If that's your belief, so be it. But tell me instances of Alan Moore going out of his way to attack Grant Morrison? I only remember one case, when he compared Arkham Asylum to dog shit. Otherwise Moore remains silent on this so-called rivalry. But Morrison has an obsession that he won't let go. He attacks him in his book, in his comics, and in his interviews.
    you are far more obsessed with this "rivalry" than either of these two writers

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