Valiant - A Triumph of Editorial

[Alton]

I agree w/ Bugsy Sig...comparing Valiant to DC's New 52 relaunch (or even Marvel Now) is comparing apples & oranges. Totally different #'s, etc. I do think comparisions w/ Atlas or the Stan Lee Boom! titles is valid. I would even throw in the DH/GK relaunch.

And so far Valiant is doing very well compared to those books.

I agree with most of your assessment and Bugsy's,but....This "apples to oranges" still applies regarding DC in that we see the right editorial policy,looking at what the market will bear as well as sales so far as opposed to bad editorial policy(DC's)that simply flooded the market during an economic downswing with too many books that basically cancelled each other out.I haven't kept up with the numbers,but at 2 LCS's I do business with, nobody is buying Action or Detective and 1 store may drop wall copies of Detective.This may not be typical of other markets. The fact that Valiant has only confirmed Shadowman is smart because it shows they are paying attention to the bottomline.Are former Valiant fans going to start dissing Valiant because they may not have every book in their catalog out at the same time? Show me the carryover market that will support approximately 15 titles in 3 yrs.We already have an initial launch of 4 titles of very high quality with a 5th in November.This isn't enough titles for former Valiant fans to enjoy until Valiant can work on more?

[Sentinel Supreme]

I think it goes along with what I mentioned earlier, and what they talk about in the article about being fluid within the framework of their long term plan. They likely had the plan to execute a 5th title in the Fall/Winter. Originally the idea was probably Eternal Warrior, maybe by one of the writers of another Valiant book (Josh Dysart said he would love to work on Eternal Warrior). Once Zircher was brought on board, Jordan's pitch came up, and Warren and the VEI team chose to shift to Shadowman (possibly the 1st or 2nd most recognizable Valiant character). So maybe EW gets pushed to the Spring, and Rai goes out even further, or they go back to plan and follow Rai with EW at an even later date.

I do hope there is still something big planned with EW for the Winter for the sake of living up to the FCBD teaser either in terms of a big Crossover in another book or even a trade collection.

I also doubt ShadowMan will be the last new title "for a bit." If the goal is 15 titles in 3 years, there is no way they will wait too long between titles.

I think BugsySig is right about Shadowman replacing EW. I think the reasons for this are probably two-fold: one) the pitch by Jordan probably sold Dinesh and Simmons on the book, and b) the fans at valiantfans.com have been very vocal about wanting Shadowman to be the next Valiant character launched. As much as I like EW, I think Shadowman is a safer bet from a corporate perspective, as he is one of the most well-known Valiant characters, and I also feel that Jordan and Zircher are going to blow us away. I thought the preview pages for Bloodshot looked good, but this is jaw-dropping stuff we've seen so far.

[Hawkeyeps]

I posted this on the Jody Leheup thread-

I love the attention to editorial, that is what holds the the cohesion of the universe. The editor should do more than kiss ass and get coffee for some delicate genius (Bendis).

A comic universe with tight continuity is the one in which I can most suspend disbelief and therefore enjoy, as it is now Valiant is on the top of my read pile I hope the good work carries on. Valiant has the oppertunity to give us a product Marvel and DC aren't. I just read an article about Bendis where he was reveling in breaking toys and pissing in playgrounds it was sad.

Valiant is a breath of fresh air!

[md62]

I agree with most of your assessment and Bugsy's,but....This "apples to oranges" still applies regarding DC in that we see the right editorial policy,looking at what the market will bear as well as sales so far as opposed to bad editorial policy(DC's)that simply flooded the market during an economic downswing with too many books that basically cancelled each other out.I haven't kept up with the numbers,but at 2 LCS's I do business with, nobody is buying Action or Detective and 1 store may drop wall copies of Detective.This may not be typical of other markets. We already have an initial launch of 4 titles of very high quality with a 5th in November. This isn't enough titles for former Valiant fans to enjoy until Valiant can work on more?

Really shocked that nobody is buying Action or Detective at your LCS...Again DC & Valiant are two different companies. I like the way Valiant is doing business. Valiant was my favorite early 90's company & right now is my 2nd favorite (behind the New DC). And yes if Valiant starts having HUGE delays it will kill interest in the books. Atlas made this mistake.....

[BugsySig]

Really shocked that nobody is buying Action or Detective at your LCS...Again DC & Valiant are two different companies. I like the way Valiant is doing business. Valiant was my favorite early 90's company & right now is my 2nd favorite (behind the New DC). And yes if Valiant starts having HUGE delays it will kill interest in the books. Atlas made this mistake.....

I don't see it happening. They are already rotating in fill in artists in order for the main artist to get a full arc ahead. Once again, good planning and foresight on Valiant's part. Everyone who mentions delays killing new publishers is absolutely correct, so Valiant's ability to be on time will be crucial. So far, so good.

[Manga4life]

Really shocked that nobody is buying Action or Detective at your LCS...Again DC & Valiant are two different companies. I like the way Valiant is doing business. Valiant was my favorite early 90's company & right now is my 2nd favorite (behind the New DC). And yes if Valiant starts having HUGE delays it will kill interest in the books. Atlas made this mistake.....

The problem with Atlas is that nobody gave a hoot, their books initially barely made the Diamond 300 orders chart at all and there was no buzz about the books whatsoever so late or on time the company had no shot at doing anything at all. Valiant on the other had had a nice buzz going in as well as amazing press and reviews, but yeah, lateness would kill the buzz (as it always does) but I don't see them falling into that rut as they've seemed to have things well planned out.

[Alton]

Really shocked that nobody is buying Action or Detective at your LCS...Again DC & Valiant are two different companies. I like the way Valiant is doing business. Valiant was my favorite early 90's company & right now is my 2nd favorite (behind the New DC). And yes if Valiant starts having HUGE delays it will kill interest in the books. Atlas made this mistake.....

Yes, but based on whose schedule? The last I read this is simply a switch out of one November title for another possibly based on fan support for Shadowman and a great creative team pitch.What happens in the spring happens months from now.That will give Valiant at least 7-6 issues for at least 2-3 of the original launches to prove themselves sales wise which is the critical juncture in this market.Readers have to consistently support Valiant not just grab a few issues and then say "meh".My thoughts on Ardden/Atlas is that they went into this with no financial backing and seemed to me to have expected that sales of the books(and possibly be flooded with media crossover tie in offers which never happened)to be the cash to continue operations.Big mistake if I am right.Ardden itself also seems to have disappeared and a number of new creative team launches from them I was following as well.Where is Minx,Devil is Due in Dreary, and at least 1 other since their #1's.Ardden/Atlas has experienced huge delays or may in fact be gone by now.Valiant isn't anywhere near that situation yet.I never read Original Valiant,but I'm onboard Nu Valiant for as many titles as I can afford.Yes,I agree that DC and Valiant are 2 different companies.Valiant has good editorial and business people and DC does not despite DC's great creative teams.One(V) is well run And the other(DC) is being run into the ground.I'm down to Batman Beyond(which I'm ready to drop) and Ravagers after Spaceman and Shade complete their runs.

[fishbonex]

Really shocked that nobody is buying Action or Detective at your LCS...Again DC & Valiant are two different companies. I like the way Valiant is doing business. Valiant was my favorite early 90's company & right now is my 2nd favorite (behind the New DC). And yes if Valiant starts having HUGE delays it will kill interest in the books. Atlas made this mistake.....

I love the Valiant relaunch, every title so far is fantastic. I was also a huge fan of the original run, until they crossed over with Image they were great, but after that they seemed to spread too thin and the quality dropped fast. Though Ninjak seems an odd choice over EW and even Rai, after Bloodshot I am looking forward to what they will do.

DC has been very successful, though, in their relaunch. They didn't cancel any titles until issue 8, and replaced those with new titles. The 52 titles are actually less than what they were publishing prior, so they didn't flood the market outside of fans wanting to try out more books than they normally would. With that, DC relaunched with a far more varied selection of genres not seen in a long time. Also, due to th fact they are DC, not a defunct company, starting off with 1 book at relaunch is impossibly stupid. They have copyrighted characters to sell. Now, The top 10 selling books include Action Comics, Green Lantern, Justice League, Batman and Detective. Plus, Wonder Woman, Flash and Aquaman are selling very well and are getting more positive exposure and sales than they have in years. Whether a person likes a title or not, one cannot deny that a year later they completed a successful relaunch.

[BugsySig]

I love the Valiant relaunch, every title so far is fantastic. I was also a huge fan of the original run, until they crossed over with Image they were great, but after that they seemed to spread too thin and the quality dropped fast. Though Ninjak seems an odd choice over EW and even Rai, after Bloodshot I am looking forward to what they will do.

DC has been very successful, though, in their relaunch. They didn't cancel any titles until issue 8, and replaced those with new titles. The 52 titles are actually less than what they were publishing prior, so they didn't flood the market outside of fans wanting to try out more books than they normally would. With that, DC relaunched with a far more varied selection of genres not seen in a long time. Also, due to th fact they are DC, not a defunct company, starting off with 1 book at relaunch is impossibly stupid. They have copyrighted characters to sell. Now, The top 10 selling books include Action Comics, Green Lantern, Justice League, Batman and Detective. Plus, Wonder Woman, Flash and Aquaman are selling very well and are getting more positive exposure and sales than they have in years. Whether a person likes a title or not, one cannot deny that a year later they completed a successful relaunch.

I agree with your points, and when looking at those top tier titles, it has been a success. I think the complaints come from the mid tier and lower tier books where editorial has seemed to either drive away creative (Stormwatch, Voodoo) or given up on books too quickly (OMAC, Blackhawks). Overall, I am sure DC is pleased and have brought in a ton of new readers. But they also alienated a lot of their long time readers which is not good for business in the long term as those readers tend to stick around, where as new readers are more fickle. Of course, given they launched 52 new books, having 1/3 of those be successful is pretty good. A small start up like Valiant, however, can't afford to miss on 2 out of 3 books.

[AJBopp]

But they also alienated a lot of their long time readers which is not good for business in the long term as those readers tend to stick around, where as new readers are more fickle.

I am a returning reader I suppose. I used to pick up DC years ago, then dropped it pretty much in the 80s and was only a Marvel guy. A few years ago I got disillusioned with Marvel and have been struggling to find a home since. With the New 52 I decided to give DC a try, and picked up a dozen or more of the titles, intending very much to go with them for the long haul on this. A year later, however, I have found myself disengaged from nearly every title. I still read Justice League, Action, and Superman (3 titles I've never cared for in the past) but the rest leave me uninterested. The Court of Owls storyline I found so irritating that I lost interest in Batman entirely, in all his titles. Even the three DC titles still on my pull list I am only casually interested in.

Soon, I expect DC will completely go off my radar as Valiant launches more and more titles. Valiant gets comics.

[Brandon McKinnis]

I am a returning reader I suppose. I used to pick up DC years ago, then dropped it pretty much in the 80s and was only a Marvel guy. A few years ago I got disillusioned with Marvel and have been struggling to find a home since. With the New 52 I decided to give DC a try, and picked up a dozen or more of the titles, intending very much to go with them for the long haul on this. A year later, however, I have found myself disengaged from nearly every title. I still read Justice League, Action, and Superman (3 titles I've never cared for in the past) but the rest leave me uninterested. The Court of Owls storyline I found so irritating that I lost interest in Batman entirely, in all his titles. Even the three DC titles still on my pull list I am only casually interested in.

Soon, I expect DC will completely go off my radar as Valiant launches more and more titles. Valiant gets comics.

I'm in a somewhat similar position. I absolutely hate the X-men so MarvelNOW is a good jumping off point for most books. I'm going to stick with Avengers and New Avengers since I like Hickman but we'll see how that goes. I tried to get on board with DC during their relaunch but am now down to Animal Man and Swamp Thing which I'm thinking of dropping after Rot World. I'm really enjoying all the Valiant books so far so I'm hoping these books continue to perform.

[josh straightedge]

I've liked everything that I've read so far with the Valiant relaunch. I thought Bloodshot was really good.

[Hawkeyeps]

I'm excited for A&A this week, I think we'll get a lot deeper in to the Valiant Universe, I love the way it's unfolding so far.

As for Bloodshot, I thought it was the best Bloodshot issue ever and I have all the old stuff all the way through to it's grim Acclaim end.

I'm intrigued to say the least!

And we have Rai to look forward to, I know that will tie in to Bloodshot big time! In the old VU we saw Rai first then Bloodshot, this time it's reversed that's a cool twist! Just like I think a cool twist would be Erica Pierce having a "Solar" incedent and being the hero and having Phil Seleski return as her creepy subordinate, reversed!
Instead of Torque knocking up Kris and getting killed he some how ends up in the future with Rai and becomes the new "Robot Smasher"!

I think that would be great way to get the Solar/Magnus feel to the VU with out stepping on any GK toes.

[BugsySig]

I'm excited for A&A this week, I think we'll get a lot deeper in to the Valiant Universe, I love the way it's unfolding so far.

As for Bloodshot, I thought it was the best Bloodshot issue ever and I have all the old stuff all the way through to it's grim Acclaim end.

I'm intrigued to say the least!

And we have Rai to look forward to, I know that will tie in to Bloodshot big time! In the old VU we saw Rai first then Bloodshot, this time it's reversed that's a cool twist! Just like I think a cool twist would be Erica Pierce having a "Solar" incedent and being the hero and having Phil Seleski return as her creepy subordinate, reversed!
Instead of Torque knocking up Kris and getting killed he some how ends up in the future with Rai and becomes the new "Robot Smasher"!

I think that would be great way to get the Solar/Magnus feel to the VU with out stepping on any GK toes.

I too am excited for A&A. I had never read the original, and when it was announced as the 4th title I had the least interest in it. Then the creative team was announced and I was sold. I loved FVL on Hercules and Henry's preview art looks so great. I also bought the hardcover of the original (which made me wonder why I never read it in the first place) to lay a good foundation. This does seem like the world building book for Valiant.

As for Rai, he was always my favorite Valiant character and I hated when he was killed off in Unity. I can't wait to see what Valiant has in store for him this time around.

[Hawkeyeps]

Yeah Rai was a big shocker, he was one of the first Valiant spin off characters coming right out of Magnus nobody expected him to die in Unity but it gave weight to the whole story.

He never came back, he was dead that was it, but out of that came Bloodshot and the next Rai and the next Rai.

As we saw in the first issue of new Bloodshot these guys tend to die a lot, the blood of heroes is a brutal but necessary legacy.