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  1. #31
    X-Gene Positive cookepuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bskell View Post
    I keep wondering if digital is the promised land or if comics in general are dying.
    I don't think I want to see those numbers just yet. Digital comics represent an emerging market. The numbers are going to be small. VERY small. I'm more interested in knowing if there's any growth. As-is, it's too early in the game to know if digital is the future for comics or not. Personally, given the trend of everything going digital, I'd be surprised if comics' future wasn't digital. That's just me though.

  2. #32
    X-Gene Positive cookepuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bskell View Post
    Can't I will my account to someone?
    Good question. Maybe not. Being digital, such things are tied to a EULA, which is just a contract between the end user and the publisher, in this case. As such, by downloading their comics, you agree to abide by the terms of the EULA. Those terms could theoretically prevent both the resale and transfer of those rights to a third party. This happens in the software world. Some software you can resell or give away. Some you can't. I used to write software reviews for a CG site. They'd give me the software for free. Expensive stuff too. Like $4,000 a pop. Couldn't sell it because my EULA was NFR, Not-For-Resale. Couldn't give it away for the same reasons, a limitation of the licenses.

    Autodesk was recently taken to court over this resale/transfer issue. IIRC, the courts said that they can't do it, prevent resale that is. However, given the fact that it all relies on their activation servers, the issue is more complex than that. Similarly, in the game world, developers and publishers are trying to stop or limit the after market. They don't want you to buy used games because they don't see any money from it. You'd have to think that, if comics followed the same logic, inheritance could be a problem if they suddenly decided that they didn't want anybody but the original licensee to enjoy the book in any shape or manner. Not sure how they could reasonably stop people, but...
    Last edited by cookepuss; 07-27-2012 at 08:52 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bskell View Post
    Can't I will my account to someone?
    Not according to the Terms of Use at Comixology:

    "Upon your payment of the applicable fees (if any) and subject to any further restrictions in the EULA, if applicable, comiXology grants you the non-exclusive right to view, use and display the Digital Content as part of your use of the Service and solely for your personal, non-commercial use. Digital Content is licensed, not sold, to you by comiXology. ComiXology reserves the right to revoke your license to Digital Content at any time for any reason. Unless specifically indicated otherwise, you may not sell, rent, lease, distribute, broadcast, sublicense or otherwise assign any rights to the Digital Content or any portion of it to any third party, and you may not remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Digital Content. In addition, you may not, and you will not encourage, assist or authorize any other person to, bypass, modify, defeat or circumvent security features that protect the Digital Content. You acknowledge and agree that Digital Content may not be available to view, use or display under certain conditions, such as due to restrictions made by licensors of Digital Content or if the publisher of Digital Content no longer retains the rights or other licenses, consents or permissions to that Digital Content. ComiXology reserves the right to modify or discontinue the offering of any Digital Content at any time."

    http://www.comixology.com/terms

    -B

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Hibbs View Post
    That's not a "hook", not when Wolverine, Storm, Beast and countless others have been Avengers for years.

    Further, a merger of the teams simply reduces what is special and individual about each to nothing.

    I especially like your contention that is "is like a JLA for Marvel". We already have that comic book: it is called "Avengers".

    -B
    No, it is not. The analog is not the same because of the very fact that it leaves out the X-Men. Beast, Storm, Wolverine being in the Avengers isn't the same as having a merged team of equal parts Avengers and X-Men. It is the true super team (especially if the Fantastic Four are members), that the JLA has been all along, but the Avengers has failed to be thus far.

    That's why New Avengers was so popular and so successful. The hook was Spider-Man and Wolverine, which made it even more JLA-like than it was before. Uncanny Avengers is just the natural progression after New Avengers to go all-in and say this is the real Marvel Super-Team.
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  5. #35
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    [QUOTE=cookepuss;15596819]We're in a transition phase when it comes to energy. Our dependence on fossil fuels can't and likely won't last forever. Alternatives are on the horizon. Ease of adoption is a different story. We'll adapt.


    Seems unlikely. Every backup would have to destroyed. Every server would have to go down. Everybod's tablet or computer would have to die. Look at the music world. Are you telling me that old cassette tapes will outlast digital? Again, unlikely considering that a digital copy can go viral and be in the hands of millions of people. You'd have to eliminate all of those sources to rid the world of that album. Even then... Short of global thermonuclear war wiping out all data on the planet, digital files will always find a way to survive. Paper? Far more fragile, especially when production costs are cutting into paper stock or stage costs prevent people from safely securing their copies.

    Physical comic books will remain because they are real.[/QUOTE
    As a professional digital artist, I'm a bit offended. Is my are no less real because it's not on a canvas or made of clay? Physical things grow old and wither. Period. Your good looks... Don't count on them being there forever. They too will fade. That polaroid photo of you and your dad when you were a kid... That'll fade too. If you can touch it, it can die or age. We have to be more vigilant about preserving our digital data. However, assuming that we can, digital has a relatively greater degree of permanence and relevance in this world.
    You are assuming that in an energy-scarce world, people will prioritize comics over keeping other things running and that access to electricity will remain as ubiquitous as it is today. That it wishful thinking, indeed. Yes we will adapt, but what will that adaption look like? I think digital comics is one of the last things that we would hope to preserve under such circumstances. You are also assuming we will have electricity at home, instead of a library or hub someplace, which is much more likely.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bskell View Post
    Id be very interested to see the numbers with digital included as well. As well as a break down on physical vs digital. I keep wondering if digital is the promised land or if comics in general are dying.
    The market as a whole, in June, was up 20% YTD, and July gave us the single best-selling comic (WALKING DEAD #100) of the 21st century. So, no, print comics are hardly dying.

    -B

  7. #37
    X-Gene Positive cookepuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomengine View Post
    You are assuming that in an energy-scarce world, people will prioritize comics over
    And you're assuming that people won't take responsibility for their own energy needs. My old highschool, for example, is now largely solar powered. Will everybody be able to do this? Not currently. Eventually? Maybe. It's going to get worse if we don't do something to make it better. That applies to all of us. Personal responsibility is important, especially in this modern climate.

  8. #38
    X-Gene Positive cookepuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Hibbs View Post
    July gave us the single best-selling comic (WALKING DEAD #100) of the 21st century.
    Worst argument ever. Again, look at that Uncanny X-Men graph. You can see a massive spike where #500 came out. I'm talking about 90s era sales numbers for that issue. After & before? Not so great. You can't make a case based on anniversary or event issues alone. You could well be right and TWD represents how healthy the industry is. I just don't think that the case would hold up per-book in the other companies. So many books are tanking. It's hard to ignore. The slide isn't momentary. It's gradual and consistent.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookepuss View Post
    And you're assuming that people won't take responsibility for their own energy needs. My old highschool, for example, is now largely solar powered. Will everybody be able to do this? Not currently. Eventually? Maybe. It's going to get worse if we don't do something to make it better. That applies to all of us. Personal responsibility is important, especially in this modern climate.
    Yeah what you site is a public institution, a hub. Sure that school could probably work with reduced functionality post-oil, but for how long before the panels wear or break down? Copper is a major component, that we mine from the earth in ever deeper mines. Without oil, you can mark that as much more expensive and scarce. Not to mention manufacturing of a new panel, where all the parts come from around the world, the fuel it takes to move all those parts around and ultimately to the school. All that will be gone post-oil.

    I see these wind farms and think, "That's great, but without oil, how do you maintain them, repair them, and build new ones and transport them when they break?" How do you power the computers/servers it takes to maintain them? The amazing things we have accomplished in the recent century are all because of oil (and coal). Before that we didn't accomplish as much in centuries and millenia. I have no faith that we will magically be able to do these things without it.

    Our current period is analogous to the Romans. Once things break down then the things we have accomplished will be lost to future generations and they will have to rediscover them again if they have their own boom, after our bust.
    Last edited by randomengine; 07-27-2012 at 09:22 AM.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookepuss View Post
    Worst argument ever. Again, look at that Uncanny X-Men graph. You can see a massive spike where #500 came out. I'm talking about 90s era sales numbers for that issue. After & before? Not so great. You can't make a case based on anniversary or event issues alone. You could well be right and TWD represents how healthy the industry is. I just don't think that the case would hold up per-book in the other companies. So many books are tanking. It's hard to ignore. The slide isn't momentary. It's gradual and consistent.
    Do we have Manga book sales figures? They would go a long way towards proving or disproving your assertions. Manga creative teams don't change, and they don't reboot and relaunch all the time. I would much prefer that system to our American one. I would be interested to see the results of the comparison, not the raw figures of course, but the trends.

    I know with RPG books like Dungeons and Dragons, the first books are the best sellers, and every subsequent book sells less and less, not unlike the situation here. I know there are some differences, but it just may be the nature of serialized properties.

    Or hey, Fables TPB sales figures, that title has been pretty consistent. Have they trended downward as well?
    Last edited by randomengine; 07-27-2012 at 09:20 AM.
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  11. #41
    X-Gene Positive cookepuss's Avatar
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    Yeah what you site is a public institution, a hub.
    What I cite is NOT a public institution, just for the record. It's a prep school. Entrance exams. Interviews. IQ tests. Peer & teacher recommendations. That sort institution, not a local public school. Those funds for the solar panels came from the parents, alumni, or student run fundraisers.

    but for how long before the panels wear or break down
    And we, including myself as an alumnus, will help pay to repair or replace. Again, personal responsibility.

    All that will be gone post-oil.
    I see these wind farms and think,
    There ARE methods of harvesting energy that have nothing to do with mining for fossil fuels. I'm not talking about nuclear either. Pick up a trade magazine once in a while. Not everything is oil dependent, even for the smallest part.

    ANYWAY..... This is not a thread about environmental issues. The main debate was digital VS print, at least when talking about comics' future.

  12. #42
    X-Gene Positive cookepuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomengine View Post
    Do we have Manga book sales figures?
    I'm not so sure that's even the same market. There are many people who are fans of Manga, but not American comics - and vice versa. There's overlap, but I don't think that you can really include Manga when looking at the future of the American comics Market. That's especially true when you look at how much market share DC, Marvel, and a few smaller pubs like Dark Horse or Image hold. Manga pubs who sell alongside these titans don't make much of a dent, comparatively speaking. Gotta compare apples to apples. I'm not saying that we should ignore the manga segment and how they do what they do. I'm just saying that they don't represent the larger comics market in America.

    Or hey, Fables TPB sales figures, that title has been pretty consistent. Have they trended downward as well?
    And what happens if you don't support the monthlies? Not Fables specifically. I'm talking about comics in general. So many people take a "wait for trade" mentality that it screws over the monthly sales. Can't wait for a trade for a book that just doesn't sell. Unless Marvel starts doing trades alone, you still need to support the floppies.
    Last edited by cookepuss; 07-27-2012 at 09:34 AM.

  13. #43
    Senior Member DaronK's Avatar
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    Also, Manga isn't really the same format as American comics. Most (if not all) Manga series have definite beginnings, middles, and ends. A series isn't carried on for decades and decades, so they don't have to worry about things like continuity and characterization since a series is usually written by one person for the entire run.

  14. #44
    X-Gene Positive cookepuss's Avatar
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    Very true. The best comparison would be American English language soap operas VS the Spanish language ones. The English ones can drag on for 50 years. The Spanish language ones last for like 6-9 months and are pretty much done. Maintaining viewership on a 50 year old program is much tougher. You can hold anybody's attention for 6 months. 50 years? Good luck with that. Frankly, I see comics going the way of the American soaps, sadly. Not just yet. In the long haul? Maybe. The market is in a different place now. The readership, and what they prioritize or value, is not the same as it was even 10 years ago. Comics, imo, are in a state of flux.
    Last edited by cookepuss; 07-27-2012 at 09:39 AM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomengine View Post

    All-New X-Men is another book from NOW that we do know the hook and it is a doozy. The original X-men come from the 60's and join the current X-Men on a permanent basis. That is another huge hook. We don't know much more than that on the other titles because it would give too much away. I think what they are doing is great and I look forward to hearing more. I think a lot of this complaining is just butthurt over wanting to know more, but not being told anything.
    How can the original X-Men come from the 60s? Are they in their mid-sixties in current continuity? More like they came from the year 2000. Think about that.

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