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  1. #211
    Senior Member Eumenides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T GUy View Post
    I checked out Promethea the other month; having read only the first six issues, I would not call her a female superhero.
    What would you call her then?

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brannon View Post
    I've always gotten the sense from many of Moore's works that he's anti-nostalgia and "coziness." I understand this, but don't share it as a methodology. I think you have to balance your experiences--indulging in "safe" material but also experience things that challenge you. I'm an atheist, dislike virtually everything involving the Catholic church, but I love Tolkien and LOTR's, regardless of the fact that its an inherently Catholic work. On the flip side, I loved Moore's From Hell and most of what I've read of his works. Personal expression, craft and artistry, when created with a true sense of passion and lack of pretense, frequently trumps my personal real-world bias. I don't like to get caught up in cult of personalities when it comes to art and literature. There is very little excuse for tribalism when you have alternatives.
    I think you're partly right but Moore isn't constantly deconstructing everything he adapts. I think he does indulge in some nostalgia, whether it's because he personally takes pleasure in such forms or because he knows that his audience still does. Otherwise why revive utterly forgotten characters like "Broad Arrow Jack" in LOEG?

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by de Sosa View Post
    He also compared Watchmen to Moby Dick...


    Oh dear lord.
    IMO, he just likes to be contreversial. No one would seriously be making this comparision.

  4. #214
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    I'm pretty sure that Moore has said that Tom Strong was his way of updating the DC Silver Age aesthetics from books like the Flash in a modern context. He's most certainly forward thinking and is good at modernizing, but I don't think he's necessarily anti-nostalgia.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eumenides View Post
    What would you call her then?
    A fantasy heroine, an archetype, a metahero.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by T GUy View Post
    A fantasy heroine, an archetype, a metahero.
    In fact, one of the more interesting things about the series was how Moore contrasted Promethea with the superheroes - tellingly referred to as "science-heroes" in the story- of that world.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by T GUy View Post
    A fantasy heroine, an archetype, a metahero.
    I think regular superheroes frequently have archetypal aspects, but at times they get lost amid the soap operatic aspects. Promethea might be loosely deemed Wonder Woman without the soap opera.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasputin9977 View Post
    IMO, he just likes to be contreversial. No one would seriously be making this comparision.
    I think it would be interesting to compare the two, to see whether or not WATCHMEN's literary reputation compares well with a canonical classic.

  9. #219
    world of yesterday benday-dot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasputin9977 View Post
    IMO, he just likes to be contreversial. No one would seriously be making this comparision.
    What was the context of this Watchmen/Moby Dick comparison?

  10. #220
    Cute.5 Aaron King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benday-dot View Post
    What was the context of this Watchmen/Moby Dick comparison?
    Doing some digging, it's from this New York Times article. Here's the relevant portion:

    But Mr. Moore was unconvinced, saying that the endeavor only weakened the argument that comics were an authentic form of literature.

    “As far as I know,” he said, “there weren’t that many prequels or sequels to ‘Moby-Dick.’ ”
    Seems like he's saying that people should stop treating comics as mines for intellectual property to make money off of. I don't think he's comparing Watchmen to Moby-Dick in any sort of critical way.
    All-Star Western, Casanova, Criminal, Daredevil, Dark Horse Presents, Funnies, Hellboy/BPRD, King City, Orc Stain, Snarked, Unwritten, Usagi Yojimbo

  11. #221
    world of yesterday benday-dot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron King View Post
    Doing some digging, it's from this New York Times article. Here's the relevant portion:



    Seems like he's saying that people should stop treating comics as mines for intellectual property to make money off of. I don't think he's comparing Watchmen to Moby-Dick in any sort of critical way.
    Yeah, it seems like a pretty innocuous point of compare; simply in the context of the often unfortunate nature of sequels. I don't see much in the way of controversy in that, unless I suppose you are of the strong opinion that it is a damn shame that Moby Dick didn't have a prequel, featuring the mulling ambitions of the juvenile sperm whale.

  12. #222
    Cute.5 Aaron King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benday-dot View Post
    Yeah, it seems like a pretty innocuous point of compare; simply in the context of the often unfortunate nature of sequels. I don't see much in the way of controversy in that, unless I suppose you are of the strong opinion that it is a damn shame that Moby Dick didn't have a prequel, featuring the mulling ambitions of the juvenile sperm whale.
    The prequel starring the young whale would be like Stephen Bisette's Tyrant and would be a backup story in the other prequels:

    Queequeg, Cannibal Prince (adventure & politics across the South Pacific)
    Ahab's Early Years (romance and financial struggles as he courts his wife)
    Don't Call Me! (slice-of-life a la Harvey Pekar as Ishmael "pauses before coffin warehouses and brings up the rear of every funeral he meets")
    All-Star Western, Casanova, Criminal, Daredevil, Dark Horse Presents, Funnies, Hellboy/BPRD, King City, Orc Stain, Snarked, Unwritten, Usagi Yojimbo

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eumenides View Post
    What would you call her then?
    A Science Hero!

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slam_Bradley View Post
    First, I don't think that Moore considers Before Watchmen as disrespectful. More silly and unnecessary. And if he were dead, like Carroll, he wouldn't care at all.

    The difference is that Moore wasn't doing "Before Alice." He wasn't rehashing stuff that didn't need to be rehashed. He was using the characters in a completely different way, put in a completely different context to tell an entirely different type of story.

    Anyone comparing Before Watchmen to Lost Girls or LoEG is comparing apple pie and orange flavored drink. They are comparable only in that they're funnybooks.
    I just find Before Watchmen to be such a misguided project. Watchmen pissed all over the superhero genre. If anything, DC would benefit from trying to move away from the deconstructionist style that basically brought superheroes to a dead end.


    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    When Americans saw V for Vendetta in the theater, it was a time when anti-Bush sentiment was very high, and the film had plenty of imagery and concepts to remind one of the follies of George W.

    Hell, the film featured images of and references to the Iraq War!
    I don't have any problem with the anti-Bush backdrop in the film. V was based on a 1984 style setting, which was meant to be a warning against the kind of things in the Bush administration and post 9/11 paranoia.

    But I do think the take on V as a hero completely missed the point of what Moore was trying to say about the lead character. It was supposed to be controversial whether he was a freedom fighter or terrorist.

  15. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron King View Post
    Seems like he's saying that people should stop treating comics as mines for intellectual property to make money off of. I don't think he's comparing Watchmen to Moby-Dick in any sort of critical way.
    Yet, it's ok for him to use the narrator of MOBY DICK in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. His very choice of comparison undermines his point of view.

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