Point 1 - Who will be Ant Man?

[Monty_Cristo]

It seems that not that many people bothered to read CC, so to the audience, he was dead. To him, he was alive, but the world considers him dead. As such, simple things like an apartment, any family or assets will have moved on etc. Just because that specific version of Lang didnt die doesnt erase the consequences of his death in real terms. He's got a lot of cleaning up to do.

where i'm from, that's called a hook.

Sure, it wasn't Pym, but it was Pym until they came up with the story, and even then, a character called Hank Pym was there in the public eye

as a skrull. it's a big part of Avengers the Initiative. Bendis devoted a couple issues of his Avengers run to skrull pym (who wasn't a member of the avengers).

Cassie was Stature and, as a Young Avenger certainly did keep the Lang name out there, but the majority of the YA was focussed on Patriot and his drugs and Wiccan and his family. Cassie was an important cast member, but her story was the whole synthezoid relationship, it wasnt about her family until Mighty Avengers or the one issue of YA Presents that focussed on her.

not from my perspective. she mentioned her dad whenever she appeared. people wouldn't know who she was if they weren't familiar with Scott. she turned up and said 'my dad the avenger died. i'm going to be the new Ant-Girl.' Tony Stark took her aside to explain that he failed to protect Scott. her costume is an homage to Scott's; not Hank's. she became part of the AVengers Initiative book. the first thing she did was ask skrull pym if her dad might have survived by entering the microverse. the next thing she did was get into an issue-dominating fight with Eric O'Grady to defend her father's honor.

His reason for using the Ant Man tech was her. While he may have continued on to become Ant Man due to the rush, his most important runs as a character in big books was when he was in FF, where his story was very much of the single dad who worried he wasnt good enough

that's not true. i have every issue of the run. Cassie didn't show up until he was almost out the door. and she showed up to give Kristoff someone to talk to. Scott's role in the book was as an outsider/a witness to the gradual decay of the Fantastic Three. he was also there to fix Reed's timesled. and to, at least once, go out on a date with Sue.

His worthiness of the role isn't in question for me, he has as much right to the name as Pym does, but as a character, he isn't as well known and without his daughter, he doesnt have that connection to the wider audience who are only going to know his as 'that single dad who hung with the FF in the 90s?' or 'the guy Wanda killed right?'

if you say so. i think the most current crop of posters would know him as the guy who dated Jessica Jones before she married Cage. but i don't see anything that you mentioned as being a handicap. it could be much worse. Scott could be known for beating up a woman or creating a mass murderous A.I.

You are right, there is no Cassie without Scott, but there isnt much of a Scott without her either, and while that story is one that we really could get in this new Ant Man series (and one I would read, because I do like the character even if I prefer Pym), it would make an equal amount of sense if he wanted to retire and grieve or get his life in order after the world thought him dead,

yeah but would that make sense? he was dead. they retrieved him from the past so he wouldn't be dead. all to retire him? where's the story in that? will there be a Scott Lang retired superhero book? and, again, he and Cassie were shown separate more than together in the early days. she was there for motivation; for the origin story. Scott put on the costume to save a surgeon, Erica Sondheim. he did that because he witnessed her being kidnapped. count the number of times you see Cassie in the two issue story. i'll give you a hint. she only shows up in flashback. show me a scott lang story and i'll show you them finding a convenient reason for Cassie to not be part of the action. you say that there isn't much Scott without Cassie. i say that his story wouldn't have changed much if his ex had been granted custody after the initial origin story; except for him being more active as a hero. what convinced him to finally become an Avenger (after turning them down twice)? losing custody.

[Personamanx]

Eric O'Grady I hope.

[Dr. Sonic]

blah blah blah
Back to reasonable discussion...

The trouble I have with Scott being AntMan is that he’s just buried his daughter. He lives in a universe where the dead actually come back to life with an impressive degree of frequency. I find it hard to believe that he would go off and fight crime as AntMan, act as an Avenger, and all that, and not spend every waking hour tirelessly trying to find a means of resurrecting Cassie. It just seems out of character.

[PwrdOff]

The Mighty Ant-vengers, Earth's Tiniest Heroes!

[Monty_Cristo]

blah blah blah
Back to reasonable discussion...

The trouble I have with Scott being AntMan is that he’s just buried his daughter. He lives in a universe where the dead actually come back to life with an impressive degree of frequency. I find it hard to believe that he would go off and fight crime as AntMan, act as an Avenger, and all that, and not spend every waking hour tirelessly trying to find a means of resurrecting Cassie. It just seems out of character.

Scott's death resulted in Cassie putting on a costume. she spent a lot of her time hitting on boys. and when Scott lost custody of Cassie, he became an Avenger. it's totally in character for both of them. Scott doesn't have much of a life outside of being a parent and a superhero. when he loses one, he focuses on the other. it might be different if Cassie had disappeared in a flash of light. she was burned to death. Scott held her smoking corpse. the only avenue of getting her back was disrupted by kid-Vision.

and where does it say that he's going to be an avenger?

[Dr. Sonic]

Scott's death resulted in Cassie putting on a costume. she spent a lot of her time hitting on boys. and when Scott lost custody of Cassie, he became an Avenger. it's totally in character for both of them. Scott doesn't have much of a life outside of being a parent and a superhero. when he loses one, he focuses on the other. it might be different if Cassie had disappeared in a flash of light. she was burned to death. Scott held her smoking corpse. the only avenue of getting her back was disrupted by kid-Vision.

The whole reason Scott put on the AntMan gear in the first place was to save his daughter.
He knows Reed Richards, hangs out with time-displaced heroes, and stuff like that. There's no way he'll be able to put the matter on the back burner.
The only way I will be able to accept a Scott Lang AntMan is if he is all about using his powers to sneak into Castle Doom and use Vic's Time Platform in an effort to save Cassie.
Of course he'll fail at this, because that's sort of what he does... fails. Ultimately leading to the real AntMan, Hank Pym, having to don the suit to go in and save Scott.

damn, this stuff writes itself...

[Monty_Cristo]

The whole reason Scott put on the AntMan gear in the first place was to save his daughter.

save her from what? he burglarized houses to pay for her surgeries. he went to prison for that.

He knows Reed Richards, hangs out with time-displaced heroes,

He knew reed. he knew pym. neither character did anything to save his life. so what's your point, d.s?

and stuff like that. There's no way he'll be able to put the matter on the back burner.
The only way I will be able to accept a Scott Lang AntMan is if he is all about using his powers to sneak into Castle Doom and use Vic's Time Platform in an effort to save Cassie.

i'm not seeing the logic in that. could you translate that from shortbus to english, for me?

Of course he'll fail at this, because that's sort of what he does... fails.

i'm pretty sure that Pym still holds the record. he's failed twice at marriage; both ending in death. he has no positive legacy to speak of. he's failed as a responsible scientist. his pym particles lead to insanity. his work in artificial intelligence led to the slaughter of the slorenians. his work with crops led to an attack from the kosmos dimension. his science enabled a skrull invasion. he failed his students. etc. Reed and Tony both thought more highly about the skrull impersonator than Pym. that's why he was so easy to replace. they should bring the skrull back. he actually contributed to the world; made TIME magazine's cover even.

[Dr. Sonic]

i'm not seeing the logic in that. could you translate that from shortbus to english, for me?

The irony of referring to what I said as 'shortbus' while demonstrating remarkably poor syntax and grammar is noted.

Here, let me boil it down for you in short, easy to understand sentences:

Scott is boring. Scott plus dead daughter equals boring and depressing.

Pym is interesting. Mental instability makes for compelling character development.

Using the term 'shortbus' is offensive. You lack class.

[Monty_Cristo]

Here, let me boil it down for you in short, easy to understand sentences:

Scott is boring. Scott plus dead daughter equals boring and depressing.

Pym is interesting. Mental instability makes for compelling character development.

pym isn't currently showing any sign of mental instability. the last time he was portrayed as unstable, it was due to his dead ex-wife. how boring and depressing, right? irony.

Using the term 'shortbus' is offensive. You lack class.

i apologize for using the term shortbus. class is a social construct and won't help you here.

[KurtW95]

I think according to the picture, it's Eric.

[Monty_Cristo]

I think according to the picture, it's Eric.

why do you say that?

[KurtW95]

why do you say that?

Because it resembles Eric's current costume as the Black Ant. (If Black Ant is Eric and not one of Father's Deathlok things) And no, he's not gonna be fat. That's just an unfortunate picture.

[Dr. Sonic]

pym isn't currently showing any sign of mental instability. the last time he was portrayed as unstable, it was due to his dead ex-wife. how boring and depressing, right? irony.

Hank built a whole under-reality construct in his efforts to bring back Jan, talked it out with Eternity itself, made-out with a robot, got dubbed Scientist Supreme, and fought Reed Richards inside a Zeno paradoxes. Boring? hardly. With Scott, all we will get in tearful morning, likely illustrated by his not shaving or something equally as hackneyed. I'm falling asleep just thinking about it.

i apologize for using the term shortbus. class is a social construct and won't help you here.

touchette. Let me rephrase. You lack taste.

[Monty_Cristo]

Because it resembles Eric's current costume as the Black Ant. (If Black Ant is Eric and not one of Father's Deathlok things) And no, he's not gonna be fat. That's just an unfortunate picture.

i would be quite happy for it to be Eric. but that would make them introducing the Black Ant as a villain kind of strange.

[KurtW95]

i would be quite happy for it to be Eric. but that would make them introducing the Black Ant as a villain kind of strange.

Well, I'm thinking that he'll shake the programming somehow.