Opinions on Wagner's Grendel

[benday-dot]

With the impending release by Dark Horse of the first volume 1 (from a total of 4) of Matt Wagner's Grendel I thought I'd ask the learned members of this board what they think of this, semi-legendary, series. I know its generally highly thought of, but my involvement with the opus has only gone so far as skimming through the odd trade. The art looks quite lovely. How's the story and the consistency over the length of the series.

The omnibus series is certainly affordable, but of course a series worth is ever more than its cost.

Many thanks for your thoughts and opinions.

[dupont2005]

I've only read a couple of minis but I like it. It's not my favorite series, but I'd say it's my second favorite "almost super hero" series, right behind The Maxx. It's actually a lot like The Maxx to me, in that when I picked it up to read it I expected a somewhat typical costumed hero story and found much more. It's pretty good, and I'm getting that book.

[Dizzy D]

It's one of my favourite series. I don't know if the omnibus will reprint the really early stuff (wasn't that art lost when Comico went under?). The early issues were pretty rough, but the rest of the series is excellent (IMHO). I can't think of any other series that has changed so much over the years, switching protagonists and themes all the time and switching between personal stories (for Brian Li Sung for instance) to a more documentary style to tell the story of Orion Assante.

[pakehafulla]

I always loved it back in the day, but found the changing art teams distracting at times as the quality could vary a lot.

[Simon Garth]

Never did anything for me, to be honest. Loved the first Mage series, but my overriding impression of Grendel was that I wished Wagner would stop wasting his time on this sub-standard stuff and do more Mage!

[FanboyStranger]

It's one of my favorite series, and probably one of the most ambitious series in the history of the medium in so far as its approaches to storytelling. Devil's Legacy, War Child, and some of Wagner's Hunter Rose stories (particularly the "Black, White, and Red" stuff revisiting the character) are relatively straightforward comics, but the rest of the series are some of the densest stories ever told in the medium, often experimenting with multiple points of view on every page and approaches to narrative that truly influenced how many writers would approach their craft. To be honest, I don't think the series has really gotten its due as far as a critical examination.

When you're done with Wagner's stuff, I recommend checking out the Grendel Tales minis, especially Darko Macan and the late, great Ed Biukovic's Devils and Deaths, one the finest minis ever.

[sonicx1977]

I would like to have an opinion, but i am still waiting for that omnibus. Was solicited a long time ago...where is it?

[Roquefort Raider]

I hope it won't do the same thing as Steranko's Red Tide re-edition, and be forever lost in "coming soon" purgatory! (Dark Horse gives July 25 and Amazon Aug 14 as the release date for the Grendel Omnibus. I guess it shouldn't be long now).

[Brian Gravity]

Grendel is up there as one of my favorite anti-heroes in independent comics. Great to see an omnibus being released, however Dark Horse completely screwed up on this one. As Dizzy D mentioned, Dark Horse is completely ignoring the first four comics that Grendel appeared in, starting with Comico Primer #2, and Grendel #1-3. This is not acceptable, as those stories completely flesh out the Grendel universe and it's characters, and are integral to the collection as a whole. Although Devil by the Deed effectively re-told those stories and tied up all the loose ends in an art house-style format, it's just not the same without the Comico issues.

What strikes me as odd is that Dark Horse released the missing comics in question as the Grendel Archives in 2007, so I have no idea why they left them out here. I would have omitted Behold the Devil (although excellent) and included the archives instead, saving BtD for a 2nd collection...which could also include Devil's Vagary, Silverback, and Batman/Grendel I.

[Johnny P. Sartre]

I thought for the Omni it is goin by the story chrono instead of how they were released.

[FanboyStranger]

Grendel is up there as one of my favorite anti-heroes in independent comics. Great to see an omnibus being released, however Dark Horse completely screwed up on this one. As Dizzy D mentioned, Dark Horse is completely ignoring the first four comics that Grendel appeared in, starting with Comico Primer #2, and Grendel #1-3. This is not acceptable, as those stories completely flesh out the Grendel universe and it's characters, and are integral to the collection as a whole. Although Devil by the Deed effectively re-told those stories and tied up all the loose ends in an art house-style format, it's just not the same without the Comico issues.

What strikes me as odd is that Dark Horse released the missing comics in question as the Grendel Archives in 2007, so I have no idea why they left them out here. I would have omitted Behold the Devil (although excellent) and included the archives instead, saving BtD for a 2nd collection...which could also include Devil's Vagary, Silverback, and Batman/Grendel I.

Wagner has said in the past that he's somewhat embarassed by those issues, and he goes through periods where he's either okay with their youthful exuberance or utterly horrified that someone would actually read and possibly judge Grendel on them. When that Grendel Archives HC was originally published, he was okay with it as a curiousity or something like a dvd bonus, but he doesn't really consider them as part of Grendel proper, even if there are references to them in other Hunter Rose stories. I'm betting that's why they don't appear in the omnibus.

Silverback is an interesting point. It's not going to be included in Grendel Omnibus, v. 2, the last point it would really fit into the Grendel mythos, so I'm wondering if there's some kind of rights issue. Matt plotted the story, but it was scripted and drawn by Bill Messner-Loebs, so it may still be in some kind of limbo. I wish it would be collected-- it's a great story.

[FanboyStranger]

I thought for the Omni it is goin by the story chrono instead of how they were released.

The stories in the Grendel Archives are roughly before or during the story recounted in Devil by the Deed.

[Reptisaurus!]

I strongly disliked it, but it was a while ago when I read it and I don't remember much about it - Various series had different main characters playing the Grendel role, which I thought was (A) clever and (B) confusing. I was a little more opposed to gory and nasty superhero type books in my younger days than I am in my dotage.

Although violent psycho-killer type in a distopian future is never gonna be my particular cuppa.

Wagner is the only creator I can think of where I've generally enjoyed his work with corporate trademarks and generally disliked his independent stuff.

[Shellhead]

I was a big fan of the first Mage series, but I didn't like the Grendel backup stories. The artwork was nice, but I didn't like the characters and the story was odd and cold. So I ignored the later Grendel stuff at first. A couple of friends became big fans of Grendel, so I gave it another try for a four-issue arc. It might have been issues #20-23. I tried, but I didn't like it. I've never been a fan of Tim Sale, and the story was difficult to follow, probably because I had skipped the first 19 issues.

And while this is drifting off-topic, I didn't enjoy the second Mage series, and gave up before the end. I don't know why I disliked it, the same kinds of elements that I liked in the first series were all there, but it just seemed to lack a certain charm that was in the original series.

[benday-dot]

It's one of my favorite series, and probably one of the most ambitious series in the history of the medium in so far as its approaches to storytelling. Devil's Legacy, War Child, and some of Wagner's Hunter Rose stories (particularly the "Black, White, and Red" stuff revisiting the character) are relatively straightforward comics, but the rest of the series are some of the densest stories ever told in the medium, often experimenting with multiple points of view on every page and approaches to narrative that truly influenced how many writers would approach their craft. To be honest, I don't think the series has really gotten its due as far as a critical examination.

When you're done with Wagner's stuff, I recommend checking out the Grendel Tales minis, especially Darko Macan and the late, great Ed Biukovic's Devils and Deaths, one the finest minis ever.

Thanks very much for everyone's input. Although I've never read any of Grendel, it always seemed that in terms of ambition Wagner was trying to go for an almost epic Cerebus like "great comic book novel".

It looks like the omnibus is finally slated for next Wednesday in the comic shops. With the affordable price I might give the first volume a shot.