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  1. #4591
    Elder Member Froggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huthaifa View Post
    Easy, he upsets the apple cart. He doesnt bow down to Cap, because he every bit the leader that Cap is. Hell, if anybody understands the weight that Cap puts on himself than its BP. He is every bit as smart and rich as Iron Man. He doesnt bask in awe overe Thor simply because he of nobility himself and thats not his God:).

    When you read a character that is new to you, that puts in question all of the roles of your more established heroes, he is going to comes off as an irritant.
    I always thought the relationship him and cap had was kinda cool

    FLags of our fathers was dope too even if that was T'challa's grandfather

    Quote Originally Posted by Genki Sudo View Post
    Such a rebel
    it's kind of funny that those two are black and blue


    gave me a slight giggle
    they label me a villain cause of how I express my feelings

  2. #4592
    Senior Member RatFace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genki Sudo View Post
    Every time I've seen him he's either been a token or cannon fodder( Avengers: X-Santcion for example ) and in fact when I first came across him I pretty much saw him as the comic book version of a Uncle Tom. I do like the Ultimate version of him since there he's written and treated like a actual capable person of color which I assume will be how he is in the Capt sequel( this does include the brief time Priest wrote him as well as Hudlin ).

    BP on the other hand has screamed bad ass to me from the jump in that he's a genius, is royalty and acts like a actual king and treats his subjects as you would expect a kind king to do, puts people in their place when they deserve it and takes pride in what he does and what those before him have done to shape everything that he has

    If they killed off Sam it wouldn't surprise me( I know they never would since he's replacing BP in the Avengers toon and is in the said Capt movie ) I really wouldn't care other then a quick thought that a capable writer could do something with him other then seeing the legions of bad writers who happily use him as a stereotype. He has fans and I know it so I don't begrudge them from doing so, everyone will like a character while others don't

    Seeing as how you don't care about BP why do you even care to ask us?
    Brubaker wrote Falcon as a very capable person. Hell if it wasn't for Sam saving Bucky's ass every couple of issues he wouldn't have lasted very long as Captain America.

  3. #4593
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    Nightcrawler punched out Mephisto? How and when? I loved Nightcrawler. I love the first Excalibur run. The only X title I ever collected. Mostly because of Kurt. And I am ashamed to ask, how precisely did he die?

  4. #4594
    Forever Hooligan Genki Sudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T'Kyl View Post
    Nightcrawler punched out Mephisto? How and when? I loved Nightcrawler. I love the first Excalibur run. The only X title I ever collected. Mostly because of Kurt. And I am ashamed to ask, how precisely did he die?

  5. #4595
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    I have to ask: why doesn't Sam get this kind of love? He's a far, far more likeable character. With a little fan support, he could be so much more in the Marvel Universe. He's like on the constant cusp of the big leagues. And, he's not a dick like BP.

    Why does BP get all the love?
    Falcon is living in the shadow of Capt. America. You can't introduce him without Capt if you are not doing a team movie or book.

    He's likable but no real effort has been made to do a solo series outside of a one shot here and there. He like Storm is that safe black character that can be in a book and no one complains.

    BP is pretty much the black comic book fan dream-a black character that is in charge of something. He employs/rules over black people, holds them accountable for their actions and has his own economy. He's not screaming racism (at least not in any story I have read) and no blaming white man for his issues. He was Milestone before Milestone was ever thought of.

    What has been done to him (along with Eli & Static) is taken personally by fans because ti looks like it's a way of weakening him. Think of it like the movie Rosewood.

  6. #4596
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genki Sudo View Post
    Every time I've seen him he's either been a token or cannon fodder( Avengers: X-Santcion for example ) and in fact when I first came across him I pretty much saw him as the comic book version of a Uncle Tom. I do like the Ultimate version of him since there he's written and treated like a actual capable person of color which I assume will be how he is in the Capt sequel( this does include the brief time Priest wrote him as well as Hudlin ).

    BP on the other hand has screamed bad ass to me from the jump in that he's a genius, is royalty and acts like a actual king and treats his subjects as you would expect a kind king to do, puts people in their place when they deserve it and takes pride in what he does and what those before him have done to shape everything that he has

    If they killed off Sam it wouldn't surprise me( I know they never would since he's replacing BP in the Avengers toon and is in the said Capt movie ) I really wouldn't care other then a quick thought that a capable writer could do something with him other then seeing the legions of bad writers who happily use him as a stereotype. He has fans and I know it so I don't begrudge them from doing so, everyone will like a character while others don't



    Seeing as how you don't care about BP why do you even care to ask us?
    I care to ask because the last time I asked outside this thread, I was accused of trolling.

    See, I'm in agreement that black men are painfully under represented in Marvel comics. It's obvious to the most ignorant of observers.

    Thing is, Sam has always been a favorite of mine. I.Don't.Get.Why.Black Panther.Is.A.Torch.

    Sam, I get. I can't imagine Steve without him. He's the best friend of the Marvel Alpha Dog. Why the hell aren't you on his team?
    Last edited by Global Honored; 11-03-2012 at 04:22 AM. Reason: Language
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  7. #4597
    Elder Member Froggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T'Kyl View Post
    Nightcrawler punched out Mephisto? How and when? I loved Nightcrawler. I love the first Excalibur run. The only X title I ever collected. Mostly because of Kurt. And I am ashamed to ask, how precisely did he die?
    He punched mephisto in his short lived series

    he was having a birthday party and mephisto stopped time to chat with him and convince kurt to step aside and let mephisto reign his evil over everybody but the x-crew

    kurt promptly said eff that and socked himin the face. Mephisto left and kurt reappeared in front of his birthday cake, wondering if it was real.

    That first excalibur run is pretty great from what i've read, a bit past the cross time caper and anti-phoenix stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    I care to ask because the last time I asked outside this thread, I was accused of trolling.

    See, I'm in agreement that black men are painfully under represented in Marvel comics. It's obvious to the most ignorant of observers.

    Thing is, Sam has always been a favorite of mine. I.Don't.Get.Why.Black Panther.Is.A.Torch.

    Sam, I get. I can't imagine Steve without him. He's the best friend of the Marvel Alpha Dog. Why the hell aren't you on his team?
    torch?

    you gotta explain that term to me cause otherwise I'm thinking you're relating him to johnny storm?
    they label me a villain cause of how I express my feelings

  8. #4598
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froggy View Post
    torch?

    you gotta explain that term to me cause otherwise I'm thinking you're relating him to johnny storm?
    I'm getting the feeling that fans hold on to BP as the ultimate black superhero. People support him because he's black.

    I don't see that. I'm sorry.

    Sam, is awesome. On so many levels. I just want to see this angst directed to a character who's rocked awesome for decades.
    Last edited by Global Honored; 11-03-2012 at 04:23 AM. Reason: Language - check forum rules
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  9. #4599
    Forever Hooligan Genki Sudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    I care to ask because the last time I asked outside this thread, I was accused of trolling.
    Because you were

    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    See, I'm in agreement that black men are painfully under represented in Marvel comics. It's obvious to the most ignorant of observers.
    Not going to argue

    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    Thing is, Sam has always been a favorite of mine.
    That's awesome for you but for me not so much

    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    I.Don't.Get.Why.Black Panther.Is.A.Torch.
    He gets things done without the aid of kicking the conversation off by starting a wang measuring contest some of the more popular well known heroes have been written as doing

    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    Sam, I get. I can't imagine Steve without him. He's the best friend of the Marvel Alpha Dog. Why the hell aren't you on his team?
    Cause he's the best friend of the so called Alpha Male Dog who I'm not even fond of, why not just befriend the "alpha male dog" and call it a night? Even then he's part of many of Cap's buddies and you could argue that he's not even the top spot of those( which belongs to Bucky ), after seeing T'Challa punch out devils and checkmate Kingpins of crime that looks like some alpha male type stuff right there and why aren't you on his team?

  10. #4600
    Forever Hooligan Genki Sudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    I'm getting the feeling that fans hold on to BP as the ultimate black superhero.
    I don't but he doubles as both one of my fav super heroes period as well as one of my top fav super heroes of color

    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    People support him because he's black.
    Some people( more but they'll never admit to it ) support white heroes because they're white, then there are those who love to claim they're colorblind and that's a conversation in itself

    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    I don't see that. I'm sorry.
    That's nice

    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    Sam, is awesome. On so many levels.
    To you and a couple others. What's the same for you isn't for the next person, I hate Superman and other folks love him. It's a fact of life

    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    I just want to see this angst directed to a character who's rocked awesome for decades.
    Don't see Falcon has rocked for decades, I've seen him in Cap's shadow for decades but then BP has rocked for decades and you're showing the guy no love

  11. #4601
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genki Sudo View Post
    after seeing T'Challa punch out devils and checkmate Kingpins of crime that looks like some alpha male type stuff right there and why aren't you on his team?
    Because I've never been able to take him seriousldy. I'm sorry.

    Sam...the worst possible argument you can throw at him is that he's in Steve's shadow. A little more fan support and he'd be so much more.
    Freedom is merely the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  12. #4602
    Forever Hooligan Genki Sudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    Because I've never been able to take him seriousldy. I'm sorry.

    Sam...the worst possible argument you can throw at him is that he's in Steve's shadow. A little more fan support and he'd be so much more.
    And I can't take a character who's past history as a social worker was retconned so that he was actually a former pimp/gangbanger( which if I were you I would have been more worried about then saying him being in Cap's shadow is the biggest knock against him since that is a plus for him and is pretty much the lone one imo ) with no one even attempting to change that outside the Ult U

    Hell the only time I really took 616 Sam seriously was when he teamed up with BP & Cage where he was treated as a equal and not just Marvel's version of Tom from The Boondocks so to speak

    If you want to get folks to talk about Sam then by all means start a thread for him and I'm sure others will join you, I won't be one of them and I'll never go in there just like the other threads for characters I don't read about not even to go in there and ask those fans to sell me on a character I flat out will never care for
    Last edited by Genki Sudo; 11-03-2012 at 01:12 AM.

  13. #4603
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    Klinton this isn't a sales pitch thread for sam (who I find to be one of the most lame and boring characters ever at least the 616 version). Make a Sam thread for that and take it there. No one cares that you don't like BP and you trying to force us to like and support sam while insulting the character who this appreciation thread is for will do you favors so you might as well quit while you are ahead.
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  14. #4604
    Super Moderator Global Honored's Avatar
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    What Genki & Shadey said.

    Klinton, I am glad you are a Falcon fan. I like Sam too. But this isn't a Falcon discussion thread here. Fans here come to the BP discussion thread because they really like the BP character and story. Use the search engine and find Falcon threads and perhaps you will connect with other fans who share your admiration for Sam Wilson. It is not that BP fans don't like Sam necessarily, but they are here b/c BP is a favorite.

    If you went to a Batman thread and asked why they didn't like Superman more than Batman...well....if they did, they would be in the Superman thread already. See what we're saying?

    If you are asking why BP seems to be more representative of the black super hero than Falcon? Well, I think that is up to the individual fan and what they draw from the character(s). Again, since this is a BP Thread, there is a good chance the fans here relate to BP. Something in the character resonates strongly. He is an alpha, he is direct, unapologetically so.

    That being said, it isn't productive to put one minority character at odds against another. There are simply too few that get play right now. So just because fans here in this thread, or maybe a greater number on this website prefer T'Challa doesn't mean they have bad thoughts about Sam Wilson. It is not a competition. I am sure most would support Sam in his adventures as well.

  15. #4605
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Global Honored View Post
    What Genki & Shadey said.

    Klinton, I am glad you are a Falcon fan. I like Sam too. But this isn't a Falcon discussion thread here. Fans here come to the BP discussion thread because they really like the BP character and story. Use the search engine and find Falcon threads and perhaps you will connect with other fans who share your admiration for Sam Wilson. It is not that BP fans don't like Sam necessarily, but they are here b/c BP is a favorite.

    If you went to a Batman thread and asked why they didn't like Superman more than Batman...well....if they did, they would be in the Superman thread already. See what we're saying?

    If you are asking why BP seems to be more representative of the black super hero than Falcon? Well, I think that is up to the individual fan and what they draw from the character(s). Again, since this is a BP Thread, there is a good chance the fans here relate to BP. Something in the character resonates strongly. He is an alpha, he is direct, unapologetically so.

    That being said, it isn't productive to put one minority character at odds against another. There are simply too few that get play right now. So just because fans here in this thread, or maybe a greater number on this website prefer T'Challa doesn't mean they have bad thoughts about Sam Wilson. It is not a competition. I am sure most would support Sam in his adventures as well.
    I understand. Last time I did that, though, you locked up my thread and told me to post any questions about BP in here. This was as much about him as it was about Sam.

    I was just kind of annoyed that a recent Falcon thread got all of three replies and this one keeps on chugging, truth be told. Not that there should only be one awesome black character in Marvel or anything ('cause there are three by my count: Sam, Ororo, and Nina). But Sam needs more love.

    That, and there was a whole lot of beer involved in this tangent last night. I seriously came at this like it was a stroke of genius and not the annoying interruption that it really was.

    Sorry guys. Ima step out of this thread an let you carry on.
    Freedom is merely the ability to live without fear of persecution.

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