Getting into Conan, The Barbarian; have questions

[Roquefort Raider]

It's the Barry Windsor-Smith Conan Archives. They've only done two volumes (volume 1 stops at #11, volume 2 contains ten more issues, but I believe it skips one). I keep waiting to see if they'll do a third since I prefer that format to the Chronicles of Conan editions, but I find it problematic that they named it the Barry Windsor Smith Conan Archives. That means the volumes can't go further than the point when BWS leaves (when does that happen, anyway?).

Smith leaves with issue #24, but the multi-part story it was a part of ends two issues later.

There are two sets or reprints by Dark Horse from that era: the paperback Chronicles of Conan reprints that take four volumes to reprint Conan the barbarian #1 to 26, and the Barry Windsor-Smith Conan archives that reprint the BWS work in these issues in two hardcover volumes. The missing issues are either reprints (CtB #22 reprinted issue #1) or drawn by Gil Kane (CtB 17 and 18).

I'd go for the hardcover, not only because they probably look better on a shelf and will doubtless last longer, but also because there were complaints about the recoloring of some issues in the Chronicles, and I've read that these complaints had been addressed in part in the hardcovers.

The best recoloring, of course, is probably to be found in the Marvel Treasury editions; Smith himself colored the originally B&W Red nails in MTE #4, and I believe he did the same with the reprint of issue 11, Rogues in the house. Much better, in any case, than the photoshop effect-saturated job seen in the chronicles.

[shaxper]

I'd go for the hardcover, not only because they probably look better on a shelf and will doubtless last longer, but also because there were complaints about the recoloring of some issues in the Chronicles, and I've read that these complaints had been addressed in part in the hardcovers.

The recoloring of the Archives editions are still "off," but they are improved from the Chronicles of Conan editions. I can't stand when publishers attempt to apply a more modern look with their recoloring. The inauthenticity is jarring to me.

[shaxper]

The missing issues are either reprints (CtB #22 reprinted issue #1) or drawn by Gil Kane (CtB 17 and 18).

Am I missing much by skipping #17 and #18?

[Cei-U!]

Am I missing much by skipping #17 and #18?

Just some great Gil Kane/Ralph Reese/Dan Adkins art and Roy's subtle homage to Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. Storywise, though, it's safe to skip 'em (though I wouldn't).

Cei-U!
I summon the underappeciated Conan classics!

[CromagnonMan]

Am I missing much by skipping #17 and #18?

I skipped them , it didnt matter to me. I happened across them later on in B&W but i cant remember where now, reprinted in a SSOC issue i think.

[Roquefort Raider]

I skipped them , it didnt matter to me. I happened across them later on in B&W but i cant remember where now, reprinted in a SSOC issue i think.

You're correct, Cro, they're reprinted in SSoC #13.

Shaxper, I agree with Cei-U that the Kane/Reese art is beautiful in #17; I nominated it in my list of best penciller/inker teams for the 12 days of Christmas game last year. Storywise, the two issues adapt the non-Conan short story "The gods of Bal-Saggoth" by R.E. Howard, which is pretty good; in terms of conitnuity, it explains where Conan's bearded pal in CtB#19 came from and what the two of them are doing on a boat. Other than that it's not crucial to the rest of the storyline.

Oh, and Kurt, although Fafnir is indeed a homage to Fritz' Leiber Fafhrd, he and his partner Blackrat had already been introduced back in CtB #6! I guess Roy Thought he was too good a characte to leave for long in limbo. (And besides, Roy needed a stand-in for Athelstane the Dane in "gods Bal-Saggoth", so everything worked nicely).

[LEADER DESSLOK]

Smith leaves with issue #24, but the multi-part story it was a part of ends two issues later.

There are two sets or reprints by Dark Horse from that era: the paperback Chronicles of Conan reprints that take four volumes to reprint Conan the barbarian #1 to 26, and the Barry Windsor-Smith Conan archives that reprint the BWS work in these issues in two hardcover volumes

. The missing issues are either reprints (CtB #22 reprinted issue #1) or drawn by Gil Kane (CtB 17 and 18)...

Thank you. Marvel produced a black and white ESSENTIAL CONAN THE BARBARIAN which reprinted Windsor-Smith's entire original tenure on that title but once Marvel lost the rights, I never saw it again and believe it is simply out-of-print. If you hunt used bookstores or try EBAY it might pop up!

[Slam_Bradley]

[B]

Thank you. Marvel produced a black and white ESSENTIAL CONAN THE BARBARIAN which reprinted Windsor-Smith's entire original tenure on that title but once Marvel lost the rights, I never saw it again and believe it is simply out-of-print. If you hunt used bookstores or try EBAY it might pop up!

It's very expensive. Or was as of a couple of years back. It's cheaper to buy the Dark Horse books.

[shaxper]

So, based on your recommendations, I've been reading the original Robert E. Howard stories for the past week. Though I thoroughly enjoyed the first few (Phoenix on the Sword, Tower of the Elephant, God in the Bowl, Frost Giant's Daughter) I wasn't really in love, though I definitely saw potential in them. Then I finished The Scarlet Citadel tonight. WOW. Truly, truly awesome tale. I think I'm finally catching the bug.

[CromagnonMan]

So, based on your recommendations, I've been reading the original Robert E. Howard stories for the past week. Though I thoroughly enjoyed the first few (Phoenix on the Sword, Tower of the Elephant, God in the Bowl, Frost Giant's Daughter) I wasn't really in love, though I definitely saw potential in them. Then I finished The Scarlet Citadel tonight. WOW. Truly, truly awesome tale. I think I'm finally catching the bug.

Hm, im glad theyre starting to grab you. I dont think Scarlet Citadel was the first one to grab me though, i would put down Tower of the Elephant for that i think.

[shaxper]

Hm, im glad theyre starting to grab you. I dont think Scarlet Citadel was the first one to grab me though, i would put down Tower of the Elephant for that i think.

A lot of people seem to feel that way. I really enjoyed aspects of Tower of the Elephant (especially the concept behind Yag Kosher [sp?]), but I I didn't enjoy the pacing. The first part felt like a generic dungeon crawler sort of story with random monsters and animals to be defeated, and the final act felt hurried and pretty much left Conan caught between powers larger than himself, not playing any kind of active role beyond delivering a jewel to a wizard.

I really wanted to enjoy that one because Roy Thomas indicated it was a favorite of his in the preface to Chronicles of Conan vol. 1, but I pretty much felt the same way about the comic version as I did of the original story. Great concept -- the delivery left me indifferent.

Citadel of Pain, in contrast, features similarly outlandish concepts, more intense dungeon crawling, an intriguing sorcerer villain who we actually get to see, semi-admire and also strongly resent before his downfall comes at the conclusion, and a powerful role for Conan to play in which I outright rooted for his return in the fourth act.

Not really trying to convince a diehard Conan fan how to view the stories, mind you; just explaining my own preference.

[CromagnonMan]

A lot of people seem to feel that way. I really enjoyed aspects of Tower of the Elephant (especially the concept behind Yag Kosher [sp?]), but I I didn't enjoy the pacing. The first part felt like a generic dungeon crawler sort of story with random monsters and animals to be defeated, and the final act felt hurried and pretty much left Conan caught between powers larger than himself, not playing any kind of active role beyond delivering a jewel to a wizard.

I really wanted to enjoy that one because Roy Thomas indicated it was a favorite of his in the preface to Chronicles of Conan vol. 1, but I pretty much felt the same way about the comic version as I did of the original story. Great concept -- the delivery left me indifferent.

Citadel of Pain, in contrast, features similarly outlandish concepts, more intense dungeon crawling, an intriguing sorcerer villain who we actually get to see, semi-admire and also strongly resent before his downfall comes at the conclusion, and a powerful role for Conan to play in which I outright rooted for his return in the fourth act.

Not really trying to convince a diehard Conan fan how to view the stories, mind you; just explaining my own preference.

or Black Collossus. I think i had to read both of those Archives books and the 1st Savage Sword TPB then let it sink in for a while before i appreciated it. I have only been reading Conan for 2 or 3 years myself so i dont count myself as one of those die hard fans just yet although he is one of my favourite comic characters now. I have read those Barry Smith issues and the first SSOC issues a few times over in that time.

[MRP]

A lot of people seem to feel that way. I really enjoyed aspects of Tower of the Elephant (especially the concept behind Yag Kosher [sp?]), but I I didn't enjoy the pacing. The first part felt like a generic dungeon crawler sort of story with random monsters and animals to be defeated, and the final act felt hurried and pretty much left Conan caught between powers larger than himself, not playing any kind of active role beyond delivering a jewel to a wizard.

I hear what you're saying. One thing to remember is that Tower of the Elephant is really the inspiration for all those generic dungeon crawlers with random monsters and animals to be defeated. The Conan stories as a whole were a large inspiration and blueprint for a lot of early fantasy rpg adventures-if it wasn't a grand quest for a widget (LotR) it was a mysterious wizard's tower with a collection of guardians that rarely had rhyme or reason (the one link between the two seemed to be giant menacing spiders).

I enjoy reading your reactions to REH's stuff. My route was different than yours-I went from the comics to the "original" pastiche novels by Carter, de Camp, Wagner and Offutt, to the deCamp/Carter edited Ace collections of REH stuff (REH in original form was hard to come by in the early 80's)-so I was into the characters before I got to read the REH originals in pure form. I did however stumble across a copy of Red Nails in a library around that time that was what gave me a sense of what REH was really about-but it wasn't until I was a bit older and began to explore Howard's non Conan stuff that my appreciation of him as a writer really blossomed. I think that is why I am a big Conan fan in general and have a higher tolerance for Conan pastiche than a lot of hardcore REH fans, but as a fan of REH's work in general, Conan ranks lower among his body of work for me.

-M

[Roquefort Raider]

A lot of people seem to feel that way. I really enjoyed aspects of Tower of the Elephant (especially the concept behind Yag Kosher [sp?]), but I I didn't enjoy the pacing. The first part felt like a generic dungeon crawler sort of story with random monsters and animals to be defeated, and the final act felt hurried and pretty much left Conan caught between powers larger than himself, not playing any kind of active role beyond delivering a jewel to a wizard.

I really wanted to enjoy that one because Roy Thomas indicated it was a favorite of his in the preface to Chronicles of Conan vol. 1, but I pretty much felt the same way about the comic version as I did of the original story. Great concept -- the delivery left me indifferent.

Citadel of Pain, in contrast, features similarly outlandish concepts, more intense dungeon crawling, an intriguing sorcerer villain who we actually get to see, semi-admire and also strongly resent before his downfall comes at the conclusion, and a powerful role for Conan to play in which I outright rooted for his return in the fourth act.

Not really trying to convince a diehard Conan fan how to view the stories, mind you; just explaining my own preference.

Conan grows during his adventures. Even though Howard himself never bothered to assemble his adventures into a proper "saga" (that would be the work of later pastiche writers), he showed an increasing maturity in his character. Tower of qthe elephant is set very early in his career and shows him as a brash but inexperienced youth, less likely to take charge of events as would be the seasoned scout of Beyond the Black river (a masterpiece) or the king from the scarlet citadel nor the hour of the dragon.

I envy you the opportunity to discover these stories for the first time!

[shaxper]

Thanks, all three of you, for your responses. I really enjoy sharing my discovery of this series and my excitement with you as I continue onward. I'm in the middle of The Black Colossus now and am enjoying it quite a bit.

I hear what you're saying. One thing to remember is that Tower of the Elephant is really the inspiration for all those generic dungeon crawlers with random monsters and animals to be defeated.

Noted, but the randomness and non-connectivity of this string of encounters still bothers me, as if Howard is more interested in delivering hand-over-fist action than in telling a good story, and Yag Kosha's is certainly a GOOD story; I wish he'd given it more time/emphasis in Tower.


Incidentally, in case any of you have been wondering why I'm not doing Conan as a reviews thread, the truth is that I've been toying with it. Heck, I've even already purchased the Chronicles of Conan tpb volumes and have the first twelve Savage Sword issues. But I think I'd rather let Conan be my guilty pleasure reading, especially since so many have already critiqued and attempted to make sense of his universe, and especially since doing so doesn't jibe too well with Howard's own idea of these being campfire stories told second hand and in no particular order. Heck, in Black Colossus, we have a character named "Taurus" that I KNOW has come up before in another story, but I can't remember where, and I don't care to research it. I'd rather just enjoy it.

So I think I'm going to resist the temptation to do a reviews thread on this one, though I will be reading the Conan adventures roughly in publication order, from stories to comics.